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a lot of times .
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You’re just that one awkward conversation or difficult conversation away from having that thriving marriage conflict is really there to strengthen your relationship when it’s handled the right way .
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And it’s so funny too because people want that ,
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but they’re afraid of the outcome .
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You may be one choice away from a thriving marriage .
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Welcome to the operation ,
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thriving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer .
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Harvey sweetheart .
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How’s it going ?
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We’re in the studio for the first time for our first operation ,
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thriving marriage podcast .
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You ready for this ?
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Yeah ,
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this is an awesome kind of thing .
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So shout out to Todd ,
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our producer and so excited to be recording our first ever podcast and we’re here and we’re talking about conflict resolution .
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We’re starting this out and we’re doing we’re talking about conflict because that’s like one of the most common things in marriage .
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But when you think about being a lawyer ,
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you deal with conflict .
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That’s your job is resolving conflict .
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That’s it .
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At least we do our best to resolve .
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Right ?
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So ,
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but what are some of the common boy bad conflict resolution techniques ?
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You’ve seen her have a story about something that just went totally off the rails .
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Oh my gosh ,
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this was probably one of the craziest things .
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I had been about seven years in practice or so .
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And I was representing a gentleman on a divorce case and myself and this gentleman and my opposing counsel and the wife had just appeared before .
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The judge just told the judge on the record that my client had some vision impairment that was very significant in his right eye And then we go out into the hallway .
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The other attorney wasn’t happy with what the judge was ruling about his client because we did better that day and my client starts walking away after me and he accidentally bumps into this other attorney and legitimately did not see him because of his vision impairment .
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So this attorney gets mad and starts literally chasing him down the hallway and gets right up in his face and I’m talking like eight inches away from the guy’s face and I had the wherewithal .
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You know ,
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I’m a woman who’s five ft 10 to slip in between because it’s like ,
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hey ,
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are you going to take a swing at me .
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So that was a very bad idea in the judge’s court officer ran out in the hallway and gave this other attorney a good talking to .
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But these guys all ,
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hey ,
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okay by the flagpole after school .
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That’s it .
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Something like that .
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But you know ,
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you got a court officer in the hallway with a badge and a gun so that I think helped de escalate things .
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But just what an unprofessional thing on the part of this attorney and this attorney actually ended up leaving the case and had another attorney who was with a different practice step on because he was ,
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I think just so embarrassed and you know ,
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what would have happened had I been in court the next time and relate that story to the judge .
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So you just don’t do those kinds of things .
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Yeah .
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And I mean obviously conflict escalating to throwing hands is not where we want to go ,
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especially when we talk about marriage .
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You and I have talked about this a lot .
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And obviously we ,
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we’ve ,
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we’ve had conflicts .
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Not like that .
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No ,
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no ,
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no one’s throwing hands .
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That’s for sure ,
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conflicts happen in marriage .
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It’s just ,
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it’s a normal thing .
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Sure .
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You know ,
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when we’ve talked to couples ,
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especially when we’ve done like premarital counseling ,
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right ?
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They’ve got the stars in their eyes and they’re doing premarital counseling because the pastor just won’t marry them until they do this .
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It’s just a requirement .
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But it’s like ,
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yeah ,
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we don’t really need this were perfect .
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We’ve got the perfect relationship and we get to conflict and well ,
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we never have conflict .
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But lack of conflict is bad ,
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isn’t it ?
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Oh ,
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I’d say that’s absolutely the case because that means that you’re not expressing yourself and putting out what your opinions are and what’s going on .
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And I’m not talking about petty stuff .
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You might be putting a cloak over who you really are and just how you would be dealing with different issues .
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So conflict I think is a very healthy thing because we’re unique individuals and we have different needs .
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We have different goals .
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We have different desires and we need to make sure that we’re not downplaying who we are to just blend into a relationship because that’s not healthy .
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Yeah ,
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we’re going to talk about expectations in another podcast .
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But even to ,
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I think with the petty stuff ,
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you got to make sure you’re defining what’s petty ,
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right ?
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That’s true .
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I mean ,
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some things may be a big deal .
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We talk in the book ,
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you know ,
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the whole toothpaste illustration we use in the book where ,
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okay ,
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that to me isn’t a major issue because it just takes me extra time to for those who have read the book ,
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jen squeezes the toothpaste from the middle .
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She doesn’t wrong .
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And I allow her to do that and I didn’t find out this was ,
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you know ,
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even something that crossed brian’s mind until I read the first draft of the book ,
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another issue .
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So I mean ,
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communication stuff ,
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right ?
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Yes ,
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communication went .
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But I mean the whole squeezing the toothpaste from the middle or the bottom that that’s not the biggest ,
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but there could be other things that maybe ,
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I mean we had this issue before we hung the hook up where we put our keys where keys were getting lost all the time .
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And that could be petty .
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And at first it’s like ,
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well ,
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just just remember where you put the keys and just when I asked where the keys are ,
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just tell me ,
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but that became something that was important enough for us to do something about it really .
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We talked about this a lot um in the book ,
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conflict is important because what marriage is ,
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you know ,
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the purpose of marriage isn’t for people just to be happy .
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Happiness is a horrible goal for a marriage because happiness is just fleeting .
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It just kind of ,
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it comes and goes and so we talked about three purposes for marriage ,
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experiencing mature ,
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fulfilling love growing to be more like jesus and representing God to the people around us .
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Sometimes I don’t do that well and sometimes I need ,
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I need you to to point out to me where I’m not doing these things and of course that’s going to lead to conflict ,
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isn’t it ?
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It sure is .
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And I mean I I throw a mia culpa for for these things to I’m certainly not perfect in any of this .
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We’re both just on the journey to ,
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to be more like jesus and I think that each of us can be that that tool to sharpen the other .
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We do want to make sure that we’re fulfilling that purpose of marriage and living that out to just grow to be more like God and you don’t always get there in the prettiest kinds of ways .
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Exactly .
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I mean ,
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conflict is never comfortable .
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The people that like conflict just like argument .
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They like the adrenaline rush or something .
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It’s like ,
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it’s their version of a roller coaster ,
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that conflict isn’t pleasant .
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It’s not fun ,
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but it’s important .
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I’d say in a marriage certainly ,
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I mean talk about my profession another time ,
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just some attorneys and there can be some strategy and some things like that .
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But certainly the interpersonal relationships .
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It’s not about gamesmanship .
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It’s about acting as that team together .
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Yeah ,
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absolutely .
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I mean a marriage isn’t a lawsuit here is different .
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This is by its very nature adversarial ,
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but marriages aren’t adversarial .
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There’s just conflict .
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If there’s not conflict ,
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then someone isn’t being honest .
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Someone is either just hiding their personality or over doing the submission aspect ,
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right ?
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Oh sure .
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And on either side and I love you Pat Benatar ,
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but love should not be a battlefield .
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But we should have had our son who plays drums in here to help out with the rim shots .
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Conflict isn’t bad mishandled conflict .
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I think that’s the problem .
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And I think when we talk to couples and when you talk to people who are dealing with conflict and they want to avoid it .
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It’s not the conflict they want to avoid .
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It’s the mishandled conflict .
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I think that’s true because I think that there’s a misnomer that when I bring up an issue and I get to the other side of that with this person ,
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it’s for sure going to be worse .
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And that’s not true because a lot of times you’re just that one awkward conversation or difficult conversation away from having that thriving marriage and that conflict is really there to strengthen your relationship when it’s handled the right way .
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Yeah .
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It’s that choice to that one choice you need to make and it’s so funny too because people want that but they’re afraid of the outcome they’re afraid of ,
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oh this is just going to get worse .
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But sometimes you’re feeling bad because things aren’t resolved .
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There’s an issue you’re dealing with that’s not coming up and mishandled conflict when we call it mishandled conflict ,
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what we mean is conflict isn’t resolved appropriately .
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And so like a conflict that you’ve tried to resolve it ,
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but it became angry ,
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it became okay ,
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fine your way and then you stomp off .
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It’s something that there was not an agreement between us .
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It was just either I’m gonna demand my rights ,
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I’m gonna demand what I want or I’m going to say this isn’t important enough to me and I’m just gonna walk away and when you say this isn’t important enough to me ,
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what you’re saying to your spouse’s ,
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you’re not important enough to me to deal with this or at least that’s how the spouse is going to receive it .
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That might not actually be the case .
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But don’t say something like that because it certainly could communicate that to your spouse and to me very likely would communicate that to your spouse .
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Message sent is not message received .
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You send a message that you meant one thing ,
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but the message received is totally opposite .
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Are certainly not what you intended ?
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How then do we resolve conflict ?
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Well what are the keys to resolving conflict in a positive way .
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Well ,
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I think between the two of us ,
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we we’ve really come up with a few principles ,
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which is be kind and be clear and be present as you’re handling that and kindness friends that that really connects us up as being one of those fruits of the spirit that paul outlines in Galatians 5 22 .
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Just approaching things from saying ,
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we’re on a team together ,
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we rise or fall together .
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And even when you see basketball players who might not get along well off the court ,
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they’re acting as that unit together for the good of the team and doing well and winning championships and they’re not going to be able to do that if they’re not playing the way that they need to and taking care of each other and having each other’s backs on the court .
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Certainly it’s the same kind of thing with marriage ,
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but kindness ,
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I think really rules too into being able to speak to the heart of your spouse and show them that you’re you’re for them well .
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And being nice isn’t being weak .
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And I think at least on some ways that masculinity is perceived to present it right ,
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is if you’re being nice ,
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you’re being submissive .
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And I mean ,
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we see that a lot in movies and tv shows the macho man is the one who I’ve got control of the situation and they’re just kind of a jerk kind of the anti hero that’s so popular in movies ,
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like Yeah ,
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that person killed the bad guys or whatever ,
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but there were a jerk in the process .
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There’s so many different anti heroes out there in movies .
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But being nice isn’t being weak .
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It’s strength because you don’t need to assert yourself to get to the conclusion .
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That’s best in the marriage and you can be strong and be kind at the same time .
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I think that’s certainly the case outside of marriage is as well as inside marriage is when you’re dealing with resolving a conflict .
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But that’s why these movies with the anti heroes that’s why they’re fiction ,
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right ?
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It’s a script and I think it takes more strength in a conflict to do what you need to do to have that self control and to exercise that kindness .
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It’s certainly not weakness because I think it’s a lot easier for people to just blow up on each other .
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Well and also it’s just frankly a good idea .
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I mean proverbs 15 1 a gentle response turns away anger ,
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but a harsh word stirs up wrath .
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If you and I are talking and I’m an upset and if I come at you like I mean throwing the knife hand and putting all the old crusty N .
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C .
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O .
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Attitude ,
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you will you will you will and I just come in that attitude .
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But automatically you have no desire to work with me at that point because I just completely shut you down and put you in a situation where now you want to defend yourself because I’ve attacked you know ,
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in the natural responsive when you’re attacked is defend yourself because you’d have to right ?
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Yeah ,
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it’s just when we’re talking ,
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I mean when you’re kind ,
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when you consider it ,
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it’s just it’s just a good idea .
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It just makes sense because the goal isn’t to get your way ,
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the goal is to have a stronger marriage .
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Again ,
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this choice is to have a thriving marriage so that we are experiencing that fulfilling love ,
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being more like jesus and representing God ,
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it’s all about living a holy life and this conversation ,
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this conflict ,
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ultimately we want to get out of it being more holy than we were before the conflict started .
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That’s it .
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Absolutely .
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And I’d say it’s kind of taking this to the second point of being able to be clear ,
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shout out to the women because of the stereotype of ,
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you know ,
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my man should be able to read my mind ,
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and that’s just not true .
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You have to communicate clearly just as to what the conflict is and what your goals are and what you want to have done and see what you can do to to communicate that out .
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So just blinding clarity .
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Absolutely .
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And my dad used to joke around ,
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like ,
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don’t drop hints ,
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I’m not smart enough to pick them up ,
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and that’s true of me .
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I mean ,
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if you’re dropping the hint is like ,
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well ,
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what’s that on the floor ?
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I’m not going to pick it up ,
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I’m just not smart enough and it’s also got to be language though ,
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that they understand .
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We can get in our conversations .
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There’s often times when I’ve had to tell you ,
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okay sweetheart ,
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stop that entire sentence .
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You just said re say it because you used a bunch of legal stuff or use the words that I just don’t know what those words mean .
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And so I need ,
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so we need to make sure we’re using language because I can do the same thing .
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Right ?
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When I get into my military jargon and start using all the acronyms .
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Okay ,
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you can set an entire sentence without a whole word brian .
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You need to define every one of those things .
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So part of clarity is making sure we’re using the words that each other nose and depending on your job ,
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depending on how you grew up .
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Sometimes we’ve got friends who the wife is jamaican and I’m making up this illustration .
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They didn’t tell me this ,
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but I could see if she was using some jamaican idioms or something that her husband who is american from the midwest would be like ,
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yeah ,
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I don’t know what any of that means .
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We’ve got to be clear and our backgrounds are going to be different .
293
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We’re going to have different words that mean different things .
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I think that that’s absolutely the case .
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And I think just in addition to clarity um when we’re able to be there and be present were not checked out on our phones .
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Um ,
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we’re not checked out by watching a tv show .
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Um ,
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we’re not busy with kids or cooking something that’s really complex or busy with something that requires a whole lot of attention .
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Um ,
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we really have to make sure that we’re there and we’re present for our spouse just as we’re having these more difficult or more awkward conversations and efforts to try to resolve the conflict ,
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not just be physically mentally and emotionally present .
303
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We’ve also got to handle conflicts in the present tense .
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The conflict that you’re having is that conflict not what happened 6 ,
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12 ,
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18 months ago with this boyfriend or girlfriend you had in high school or whatever it is .
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I can’t talk about that .
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No ,
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we’re not ,
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we’re not going to talk about that conflicts again .
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The President ,
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the president has done because I mean it’s not beneficial .
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It’s not helpful .
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And also you don’t want to anticipate future conflicts ,
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let’s not presume .
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Oh ,
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this is your ,
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I know you’re going to do this because this is just the way you are ,
319
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the conflicts that you’re having is has to be in the present tense .
320
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It can’t be in any other situation .
321
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We can talk about the past or the future .
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You can talk about what’s going on right now and deal with that conflict .
323
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You can talk about the future tense conflict because I think there’s a tom cruise movie saying you can’t punish people for crimes that were very confident they’ll commit in the future ,
324
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we’re just ,
325
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we’re just going to deal with what we got right now .
326
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And uh ,
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hopefully some adjustments can be made so that there wouldn’t be other conflicts in the future .
328
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And also being present means allowing each other space to engage in the conversation .
329
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Dialogues ,
330
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resolve conflicts ,
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not monologues .
332
00:16:14,800 –> 00:16:18,300
I’m a theater person and brian is as well .
333
00:16:18,300 –> 00:16:25,040
So we want to make sure we don’t do that monologue presentation or monster log if it gets too big and ugly ,
334
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right ?
335
00:16:25,400 –> 00:16:28,000
It’s a conversation for our friends who love theater .
336
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I mean everyone loves to see a good monologue in a Shakespearean play .
337
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No one loves to listen to their spouse monologue about all the stuff they’ve screwed up .
338
00:16:34,750 –> 00:16:35,540
Ouch ,
339
00:16:35,550 –> 00:16:37,670
how about I do a monologue and all the things you do ,
340
00:16:37,670 –> 00:16:38,270
right babe .
341
00:16:38,280 –> 00:16:38,460
Yeah ,
342
00:16:38,460 –> 00:16:39,180
we can go with that .
343
00:16:39,180 –> 00:16:40,290
Let’s plan that after this .
344
00:16:40,290 –> 00:16:45,270
I like that conflict is so important in marriage .
345
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It’s just ,
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00:16:45,710 –> 00:16:53,160
it really is because there’s a pastor that we met down in texas a couple months ago and I love the way he describes marriage ,
347
00:16:53,170 –> 00:16:53,730
tim ross ,
348
00:16:53,730 –> 00:16:55,220
shout out to tim ross if you’re listening .
349
00:16:55,230 –> 00:17:05,520
Um because he describes marriage as your spouse is you outside of you looking at you telling you about you and the purpose ultimately is for us to be more holy .
350
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And I am really good at lying to myself .
351
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I’m really good at thinking I am the greatest at whatever or I’m really good at hiding .
352
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Hey ,
353
00:17:13,160 –> 00:17:14,110
I know I’m not good at that ,
354
00:17:14,110 –> 00:17:15,600
but I’m good at covering it up to myself ,
355
00:17:15,610 –> 00:17:22,580
but jen is really good at pointing out to me where I’m lying to myself and I need her to do that because that’s where holiness comes .
356
00:17:22,580 –> 00:17:27,560
That’s where we grow to be more like jesus by having someone tell us when we’re not doing what we’re supposed to be doing .
357
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I think that that’s the case and I got your back on that babe .
358
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But also ,
359
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you know ,
360
00:17:31,970 –> 00:17:32,260
you ,
361
00:17:32,270 –> 00:17:33,780
you will come to me and say ,
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00:17:33,780 –> 00:17:34,200
hey ,
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00:17:34,200 –> 00:17:34,490
you know ,
364
00:17:34,490 –> 00:17:41,890
this is something that you’re not doing well here and you’re not bursting into a conversation screaming at me about it ever .
365
00:17:41,890 –> 00:17:42,060
You’re ,
366
00:17:42,060 –> 00:17:42,360
you’re ,
367
00:17:42,370 –> 00:17:43,140
you’re just kind of like ,
368
00:17:43,140 –> 00:17:43,370
hey ,
369
00:17:43,370 –> 00:17:44,200
I got to talk to ,
370
00:17:44,200 –> 00:17:48,480
I’m going to pull you aside and just let you know that this wasn’t handled well and ,
371
00:17:48,480 –> 00:17:49,450
and here’s why ,
372
00:17:49,450 –> 00:17:50,270
and you know what ,
373
00:17:50,270 –> 00:17:53,160
what can we do to work this out and figure this out ?
374
00:17:53,170 –> 00:18:08,170
Because I don’t think any spouses are going into to a marriage relationship or people who are christians are not trying to live their lives in such a way where they want to contradict christ or live in such a way that it isn’t the best thing that he would want to have for us ,
375
00:18:08,170 –> 00:18:10,410
but just as we slip up and make mistakes that ,
376
00:18:10,420 –> 00:18:12,550
that just gentle confrontation ,
377
00:18:12,560 –> 00:18:13,050
um ,
378
00:18:13,050 –> 00:18:16,860
is great and I always say confrontation is not a condemnation .
379
00:18:17,040 –> 00:18:22,050
It’s very much something that we need to confront each other in love ,
380
00:18:22,050 –> 00:18:25,610
being that spouse that has each other’s backs and it’s never comfortable .
381
00:18:25,620 –> 00:18:25,920
I mean ,
382
00:18:25,930 –> 00:18:27,080
you don’t like me coming to say ,
383
00:18:27,080 –> 00:18:28,470
hey jen this is what’s going on .
384
00:18:28,470 –> 00:18:37,410
And I’m always feeling anxiety when I do it because there’s always the chance that I’m going to come at this the wrong way or you’re going to receive it in a way that’s going to make it not a positive thing .
385
00:18:37,410 –> 00:18:38,260
And let’s be honest ,
386
00:18:38,260 –> 00:18:39,370
that happens sometimes ,
387
00:18:39,370 –> 00:18:39,800
right ?
388
00:18:39,810 –> 00:18:44,500
It’s better in the long run when we get through it were closer to each other ,
389
00:18:44,500 –> 00:18:46,860
we’re closer to God because we were able to do that .
390
00:18:47,440 –> 00:18:49,180
So as we just wrap up today ,
391
00:18:49,190 –> 00:18:54,370
I think the big things we we want you to remember is the choice to have that conflict .
392
00:18:54,380 –> 00:18:58,340
Is that choice you may need to make to have that thriving marriage .
393
00:18:58,350 –> 00:19:02,350
Don’t hide from conflict because that’s not going to give you the marriage you want .
394
00:19:02,940 –> 00:19:04,190
Although in that conflict ,
395
00:19:04,200 –> 00:19:05,160
be kind ,
396
00:19:05,640 –> 00:19:06,350
just be loving ,
397
00:19:06,350 –> 00:19:13,860
be kind be clear and be present in the conversation and then you will be able to have a thriving marriage .
398
00:19:14,240 –> 00:19:15,710
Thank you for listening to the operation ,
399
00:19:15,710 –> 00:19:18,460
thriving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer harvey ,
400
00:19:19,140 –> 00:19:22,020
we have another opportunity for you to help your marriage thrive .
401
00:19:22,030 –> 00:19:26,950
We are hosting a special intensive marriage retreat at the beautiful Richard bush renewal center in michigan .
402
00:19:26,980 –> 00:19:33,260
This is an opportunity for us to spend time with you personally developing the skills that will help your marriage thrive .
403
00:19:33,270 –> 00:19:36,360
We’ll talk about enhancing communication skills ,
404
00:19:36,440 –> 00:19:39,260
conflict resolution and building intimacy in your marriage .
405
00:19:39,440 –> 00:19:41,480
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00:19:41,480 –> 00:19:43,680
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407
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408
00:19:46,990 –> 00:19:50,040
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409
00:19:50,040 –> 00:19:51,450
So make sure you register soon .
410
00:19:51,460 –> 00:19:52,470
For more information .
411
00:19:52,480 –> 00:19:53,950
Contact us at our website ,
412
00:19:53,960 –> 00:19:56,140
operation thriving marriage dot com .
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00:19:56,150 –> 00:19:57,670
We look forward to meeting you in person .