Uncategorized

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at the end of it says the woman would supply what the man was lacking in the design of creation and logically it would follow that the man would supply what she was lacking.

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So here’s what the helper does.

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They bring something to the table that the original did not have.

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You bring something to the table that I don’t have.

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Oh and likewise you for me.

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Right.

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Absolutely.

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And you voice away from it.

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Welcome to the Alright.

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So we are joining you folks from the studio,

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we’ve got our producer todd here and this is our last podcast of 2021.

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We made it,

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we survived 2021.

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So we’re we’re all happy about this.

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But we we got a few more days left.

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Absolutely.

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So today we’re gonna be touching base and and just talking through this concept of gender roles.

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And I think that this carries a lot of baggage for a lot of christians for a lot of churches,

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depending on the church traditions that you’re coming out of.

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And I know that for myself,

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I had this really funny conversation a few summers ago where I sat down with this woman who was engaged wonderful lady fiance,

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really wonderful guy.

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And um in talking through things,

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perhaps she was trying to sound more spiritual to me.

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Perhaps she was trying to say I’m on a good course for things and how things are going right now.

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But she said jennifer,

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we want a biblical marriage and sounds like a good idea.

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I mean that’s we encourage that.

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Right?

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Well,

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it depends on what you mean by that.

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Right?

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You’re talking about.

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I mean we were this is a christian podcast.

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It should be biblical.

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That’s what we’re trying to do,

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right?

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We’re a thriving marriage is a biblical marriage,

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right?

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But what kind of marriage?

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Let’s talk about examples of this.

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So are we talking about Abraham and Sarah and Abraham is lying.

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Abraham.

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Abraham is great,

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right?

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He’s the father of Judah.

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He was the first one.

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He got the promise from God,

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he should have this locked in,

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right?

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No,

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he’s not the perfect one,

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right?

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Just like we’re not perfect.

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So the way that it works out,

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Abraham was lying to other people saying Sarah was his sister almost married her off.

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And that caused a lot of turmoil That by the way,

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don’t try to marry off your wife and you haven’t done that to me yet.

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So I appreciate that.

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So are we dealing with jealous sisterly polygamy at its best or worst,

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depending on how you’re looking at this,

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this is Rachel and Leah with Jacob and all of that drama that looks like it could be a reality show in 2021 on some sort of a cable network or a streaming service.

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So no,

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you don’t want those kinds of biblical marriages if you will.

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But I’ve also noticed that sometimes people will say,

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well,

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I want a biblical marriage and the subtext of that really means well,

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we’re not having sex before we got married.

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So good on you.

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That that’s a good thing to hold onto and to not have happened before you get married.

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But I think that’s an important point to bring up right now.

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You bring up this idea,

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you know,

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okay,

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we we were pure before marriage.

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And that’s a lot of we’ve talked about this before.

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A lot of churches really focus on that purity and to the point though,

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that it gets elevated,

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hey,

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if we can pull off this one thing,

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then we’re good to go.

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But that’s the bare minimum standard.

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That’s not thriving.

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That’s just meeting the basics,

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right?

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But what I’d say to that too is God is a god of the do overs the start overs the redemption.

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So even if people are making those kinds of mistakes before they get married,

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jesus is here to redeem at all,

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which is a fantastic kind of thing.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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At the same time,

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I mean,

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you want a thriving marriage.

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It’s more than just,

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oh,

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we we followed these rules and really getting into gender roles.

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And this idea of biblical marriage.

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What are the biblical gender roles?

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It gets really interesting.

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And we’ll talk about that some more,

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we’ll get into Ephesians where they really tie into those gender roles,

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A lot of the couple’s when we’ve done the pre marital,

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they’ll get and say,

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hey,

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we want this biblical marriage and we want to be able to have this experience.

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And so then we ask,

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okay,

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so how are you going to manage things in the house?

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This is a big deal when you first get married and those of you who are married listening this,

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you know what I’m talking about?

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You’ve been living either if it was like jen and I,

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we were living with our parents for all through this until,

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I mean we were in college and things,

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but we,

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our first home outside of our parents home was together.

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And so we had these things,

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but a lot of people now they’re starting their lives as singles and they have their own house.

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They have an apartment.

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They have all this stuff figured out about how,

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how the dishes are done,

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how the laundry’s done.

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They’ve got all of their chores,

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all their routines together.

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Then you come together and we talk to these couples like,

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oh,

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we’ll just do everything together.

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And that’s,

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I appreciate the idea of,

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hey,

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there’s no one greater than the other,

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But we’ve tried to do dishes together and we both appreciate that.

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We’re both willing to do the chore,

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but we bump into each other.

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It’s just,

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you can’t,

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you can’t both be doing the same thing and we’re not gonna buy two dishwashers.

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We’re not gonna buy two mops,

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You know,

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there’s just limited resources on how we’re going to do these chores together.

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But I say for some of that too is sometimes it’s trial and error just as to what,

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what’s gonna work the best when you first get married and it’s okay to take time to figure out what that’s going to be 100%.

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But we’ve got to break this idea that it’s just,

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oh we’ll do everything.

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Because usually what happens is if everyone is responsible,

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no one’s responsible.

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Why aren’t the dishes done yet?

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Oh,

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I thought you were gonna do it.

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I thought you were going to do it.

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There’s this great book out there called the case for marriage and they did a lot of research about the statistics of how marriage works,

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why marriage works.

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And they’re even really focusing on the economic advantages that married couples have.

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And one of those advantages is division of labor.

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Just like in a corporation,

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you don’t have one person doing all the tasks because then one person is getting overloaded and it slows down the process.

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One of the great things about about marriage is you yes,

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there are two people dirtying dishes and then when you add Children,

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there’s even more people dirtying dishes.

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Tell me about it.

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Especially during the lockdowns or laundry.

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I I don’t understand how someone half my size can produce so much laundry but they do and division of labor being able to say,

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okay,

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you’ve got this.

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I’ve got that.

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It’s important to be able to say,

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okay,

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we’re going to divide this up and we’re going to be responsible for different things.

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But going back to what you were saying sweetheart,

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what does the bible say about that?

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And what do gender roles in marriage really look like?

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Well that’s the thing I could throw in a lot of dead air here right now.

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But I’m not going to because the bible doesn’t get into specific gender roles.

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And a lot of that has to do with the fact that society really dictates gender roles.

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And even right now in America,

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gender roles are going to be different than say gender roles are going to be in Uganda.

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Just because our our cultures are different in societies are different.

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All of these people equally valuable in God’s eyes.

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But that’s societal structure really steps in there to make those definitions of what those roles are.

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And it’s not even cultures as different as like Uganda and the United States.

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Even rural America versus urban America,

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there’s different expectations of how things are done,

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lifestyles are different.

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I mean we’re seeing that all the time with the culture clash we’re dealing with politically in our country.

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And so these gender roles can be very different.

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Our marriage is very different from what a lot of people would think because you’re the primary breadwinner.

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I mean you spend more time working outside the home working to earn an income than I do with your law practice?

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I spend a lot of time with our operation,

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thriving marriage ministry stuff and of course with my military things for six months.

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You were doing both working full time and single mom while I was gone.

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Oh my goodness!

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But I wouldn’t say single mom because I knew you were coming back and I had your support.

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But I absolutely hear you on that,

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I had to step it up to make sure that kiddos were taken care of and that’s key.

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You can have a thriving marriage and it will look very different from the marriage is our marriage looks very different from every other marriage on our street because of career choices.

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I am more involved in our Children’s education than my dad was not because he cared less but because he worked outside the home more where my mom was more involved in our education.

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But even then when my sister was in school,

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both my parents were working.

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So neither of them were doing field trips and stuff and we’ve been able to do that and I tend to do more of those types of things.

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Just because scheduling gender roles are not defined so statically as a lot of people think and it really comes to,

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I think a lot of people with a misreading of Ephesians five.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So Ephesians five.

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The big verse that when it comes to gender roles that tends to really spark a lot of controversy.

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Get people really angry is 5 22.

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And so I just read it to you right now,

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wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord because the husband is the head of the wife as also christ is the head of the church,

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he himself being the savior of the body that wives submit.

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I’ve seen more articles,

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more anger,

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more frustration about that one little word that I think most of the other things in the bible and I’d say anger really on both sides of you know,

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some some women or some men are saying this wife isn’t submitting enough and needs to toe the line.

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And the other side saying,

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you know know the the wife has to take on more of a role where she’s certainly not going to be a doormat,

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people will use this.

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And there’s other passages in Titus and first peter talk about these things that people will use this as an idea of subservience,

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right?

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And so that’s really where the argument comes in but they’re misreading in this particular text in Ephesians first of all,

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in the greek when you read Ephesians five,

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you know 5 22 the words submit doesn’t actually occur there in the greek And actually if you go back up earlier to 21 and submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

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So two people submitted together and we’ll get into what’s going on earlier that cause it’s important that’s the verb.

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So when you go down to wives submit that verb is added in english translations because it doesn’t work in english,

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but that verb doesn’t actually exist.

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The translators are borrowing the earlier verb.

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So this whole argument where we’ve had culture wars and people screaming at each other is over a word that was added by translators because not even there in the greek,

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but when you look at Ephesians,

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the whole Book of Ephesians and really,

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most of paul’s letters are not about prescribing rules and regulations for how you live your life.

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It’s exhorting and encouraging us to be unified in the church.

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Uh,

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and then earlier,

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that’s submitting to one another out of reverence for christ all of that is about how to live wisely and how the church should have been living together.

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And I’ve had someone come up to me after we had had a talk and had asked,

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well,

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okay,

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so who is the head of your household,

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jen,

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is it you,

240
00:12:21,680 –> 00:12:25,660
is it brian I said it’s jesus because he’s gonna be our leader,

241
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he needs to be the leader in the household.

242
00:12:27,750 –> 00:12:29,700
He needs to be the leader in the church.

243
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And then the rest of us are submitting to him and were then cooperating with each each other.

244
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But I’d say that you’re the one who is a leader in the household.

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I’m a leader in the household too,

246
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but I feel that brian that you’re initiating a lot of things and you’re taking the lead on a lot of things for a lot of decisions,

247
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but you can’t tell me that I’m not substantially involved in a lot of those things and sometimes it has to do with areas specialty or expertise.

248
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And I’ve always liked the the example of an incident that happened when we were looking to buy a house and I was talking with the realtor and I was talking with the title company about some paperwork for us to sign off on and what I had told them was listen,

249
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I’m the lawyer,

250
00:13:17,670 –> 00:13:19,340
I I know what’s going on with this.

251
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I’m ready to approve this.

252
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However,

253
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I want to run this by my my husband first,

254
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not because he’s a lawyer and because he can way into this more than me because the decision is effectively done.

255
00:13:29,010 –> 00:13:46,360
But I’m not going to run over brian and not bounce this off of him and tell him this is why I think we should sign off on this and why this is a positive thing and not an issue enrolls should always be subservient to team Team.

256
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Marriage is the key,

257
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we’re in this together and every person on the team is gonna have a different role and choose your team if it’s a sports team.

258
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If it’s a work team,

259
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whatever teams work because everyone is doing something different towards the same goal and so in our family.

260
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Um,

261
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and every family is going to have to choose who is the one that has to have the responsibility to be okay.

262
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We’ve deliberated this enough.

263
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This is the decision.

264
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Every team,

265
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every organization and that’s not a position of privilege or authority or power.

266
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It’s a position of responsibility.

267
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And absolutely.

268
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And so at some point,

269
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someone has to say,

270
00:14:30,070 –> 00:14:31,070
we’re done.

271
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This is the decision and in our family,

272
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that that’s usually me,

273
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that’s the one we talk about it and that’s how it works for us,

274
00:14:38,970 –> 00:14:39,790
I would say,

275
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I think that is the best reading of most of the biblical texts.

276
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But you’ve got to be careful and I would never say that it’s prescriptive.

277
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I’d say it’s very descriptive because we’ve got to remember of what the society was at the time and what was going on.

278
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And remember that paul wasn’t giving these household instructions to create a constitution for the family to create.

279
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Okay,

280
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this is now how the family should be.

281
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He was describing family at that time in the context of we’re now resurrection people were now kingdom people.

282
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Our loyalty is to ge jesus,

283
00:15:19,833 –> 00:15:21,883
not to Zeus,

284
00:15:21,883 –> 00:15:23,643
not to the emperor,

285
00:15:23,653 –> 00:15:26,033
not to the temple in Jerusalem.

286
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Because the temple is jesus and the temple is now the church were loyal to jesus and we’ve got to live like that.

287
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And starting with all these with these household instructions.

288
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Everything that paul says,

289
00:15:37,423 –> 00:15:39,383
when you look at Ephesians four.

290
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Starting verse one says,

291
00:15:40,573 –> 00:15:47,366
I therefore the pro prisoner of the lord urge you to live worthy li of the calling with which you’ve been called.

292
00:15:47,376 –> 00:15:51,546
You were supposed to live in a worthy manner with all humility,

293
00:15:51,566 –> 00:15:53,866
gentleness and patience,

294
00:15:53,876 –> 00:15:56,176
bearing with one another in love.

295
00:15:56,206 –> 00:16:00,736
Making every effort to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.

296
00:16:00,746 –> 00:16:02,016
So paul is talking about the church,

297
00:16:02,016 –> 00:16:05,206
but that’s what generals really need to be in a marriage,

298
00:16:05,216 –> 00:16:06,456
generals need to be.

299
00:16:06,466 –> 00:16:10,530
How are we functioning with gentleness,

300
00:16:10,540 –> 00:16:11,520
patience,

301
00:16:11,530 –> 00:16:14,150
bearing with one another humility.

302
00:16:14,160 –> 00:16:19,980
Keeping the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace in our relationship.

303
00:16:19,990 –> 00:16:22,610
So what does that look like though in your mind?

304
00:16:22,610 –> 00:16:28,140
How does that look like in a marriage to live out that description that paul gave us?

305
00:16:28,150 –> 00:16:28,490
Well,

306
00:16:28,490 –> 00:16:29,740
I’m gonna tease a little bit here,

307
00:16:29,740 –> 00:16:33,720
brian and say you’re really good at bearing with me in love,

308
00:16:33,730 –> 00:16:34,600
right?

309
00:16:34,610 –> 00:16:35,940
That’s mutual.

310
00:16:35,950 –> 00:16:38,040
She puts up with a lot from me.

311
00:16:38,530 –> 00:16:45,580
But I really think that when you’re every marriage needs to have it interjected into it humility,

312
00:16:45,590 –> 00:16:46,600
gentleness,

313
00:16:46,600 –> 00:16:47,670
patience,

314
00:16:47,680 –> 00:16:49,590
bearing with one another in love,

315
00:16:49,590 –> 00:16:55,120
keeping that unity of spirit and and that bond of peace to help us to stick together.

316
00:16:55,250 –> 00:17:01,240
And I think a lot of that is listening to what your spouse is,

317
00:17:01,240 –> 00:17:03,990
concerns are to what their needs are,

318
00:17:03,990 –> 00:17:14,260
what their desires are and to be able to the way that I like to put it is in a given situation where a decision needs to be made?

319
00:17:14,270 –> 00:17:16,690
Of course we’re following God.

320
00:17:16,700 –> 00:17:21,200
But in the options that we would have to follow God.

321
00:17:21,210 –> 00:17:26,200
What is the decision that is going to maxim the family?

322
00:17:26,200 –> 00:17:27,270
Moving forward?

323
00:17:27,460 –> 00:17:29,390
Moving forward to follow God,

324
00:17:29,640 –> 00:17:31,830
just benefiting the family.

325
00:17:31,920 –> 00:17:38,270
We need to hear from each other because your perspective is unique to you.

326
00:17:38,270 –> 00:17:42,050
Your experience is who you are and my experience is unique to me.

327
00:17:42,060 –> 00:17:43,650
And so when we’re looking at this,

328
00:17:43,660 –> 00:17:46,660
we both bring something to the table.

329
00:17:46,910 –> 00:17:53,170
That is valuable to the decision and that’s where a lot of misunderstandings about leadership.

330
00:17:53,210 –> 00:17:55,110
Good leaders are good listeners.

331
00:17:55,380 –> 00:17:59,710
If you lead in any area and you don’t listen to the people around you,

332
00:17:59,720 –> 00:18:05,150
you are failing the people that you lied flat out because you may have to make a decision.

333
00:18:05,150 –> 00:18:10,970
You may know things that they don’t know and so you’ve got to make a decision they disagree with perhaps,

334
00:18:10,980 –> 00:18:14,800
but you’ve got to listen and an example because we’re talking about this,

335
00:18:14,810 –> 00:18:17,500
the argument is always gender roles,

336
00:18:17,510 –> 00:18:18,860
dominance and authority.

337
00:18:18,860 –> 00:18:24,590
That’s really where people get tied up and that’s why we’re talking about this and why I talk so much about leadership and who makes decisions.

338
00:18:24,790 –> 00:18:33,130
But I would like to give an example of some people who are making really good decisions right now have recently made good decisions because they listen to their people like what.

339
00:18:33,140 –> 00:18:34,490
So Chief Bass,

340
00:18:34,500 –> 00:18:36,280
the chief match start in the Air Force shout out,

341
00:18:36,280 –> 00:18:37,860
You probably aren’t listening to this,

342
00:18:37,860 –> 00:18:38,660
but if you are.

343
00:18:38,670 –> 00:18:44,610
Thank you so much because we just in the Air Force received a new regulation about how our uniforms,

344
00:18:44,610 –> 00:18:54,380
how to wear our uniforms and everything that changed in there really came from the Airmen in the Air Force wanting something different.

345
00:18:54,390 –> 00:18:55,920
Things that me,

346
00:18:55,920 –> 00:18:57,460
the old crusty senior N.

347
00:18:57,460 –> 00:18:57,720
C.

348
00:18:57,720 –> 00:18:58,050
O.

349
00:18:58,060 –> 00:18:59,380
Why are we doing this?

350
00:18:59,390 –> 00:19:00,600
I think this is stupid.

351
00:19:00,600 –> 00:19:02,270
I think it looks unprofessional.

352
00:19:02,280 –> 00:19:06,180
But Chief Bass listening to the Airman decided her and her team decided no,

353
00:19:06,180 –> 00:19:10,890
we’re going to do this because I’m going to listen to the airman and let them know that I hear about them and care about them.

354
00:19:10,930 –> 00:19:13,910
Hands in pockets forever.

355
00:19:13,920 –> 00:19:18,120
We haven’t been allowed to keep our hands in our pockets when we’re walking when we’re standing hands in your pockets.

356
00:19:18,120 –> 00:19:20,960
Well now we can walking with the cell phone.

357
00:19:21,120 –> 00:19:21,960
The rule has always been,

358
00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:22,830
if you’re gonna talk your cellphone,

359
00:19:22,830 –> 00:19:23,720
you stop,

360
00:19:23,880 –> 00:19:25,210
step off the sidewalk,

361
00:19:25,350 –> 00:19:27,290
finish your conversation and then keep walking.

362
00:19:27,410 –> 00:19:28,850
Those are things that change.

363
00:19:28,960 –> 00:19:34,520
Not necessarily because they’re going to make us the Air force fly jets better,

364
00:19:34,530 –> 00:19:37,310
but they’re going to make the community better.

365
00:19:37,320 –> 00:19:37,610
Hey,

366
00:19:37,610 –> 00:19:40,940
these are the things the airmen want and that’s going to make us fly jets better.

367
00:19:40,950 –> 00:19:42,750
So that’s the same way with us,

368
00:19:42,750 –> 00:19:43,000
right?

369
00:19:43,000 –> 00:19:43,780
When you’re leading,

370
00:19:43,780 –> 00:19:44,820
when we’re making decisions,

371
00:19:44,830 –> 00:19:48,100
we’ve got to hear from each other and then make decisions,

372
00:19:48,110 –> 00:19:51,840
even if it’s like that’s not the decision I want to make or I would make.

373
00:19:51,850 –> 00:19:59,420
But I’m listening and we’re gonna make sure that everyone’s involved and encouraged and we’re all focus on growing more like jesus,

374
00:19:59,550 –> 00:20:04,660
but what I also wanted to delve into a little bit more is what you have brought up a little bit ago,

375
00:20:04,660 –> 00:20:13,740
which is just talking about being domineering and I think that if you’ve got a domineering wife or a domineering husband in a relationship,

376
00:20:13,750 –> 00:20:14,190
it’s,

377
00:20:14,200 –> 00:20:18,680
it’s gonna rip the couple apart and it’s going to result in a bad marriage,

378
00:20:18,690 –> 00:20:19,710
if not a divorce.

379
00:20:19,710 –> 00:20:21,130
Ultimately that would happen.

380
00:20:21,130 –> 00:20:32,210
It’s just not a healthy environment and anything that jesus would command of wives behave like this or husbands behave like that.

381
00:20:32,220 –> 00:20:34,170
A lot of those instructions.

382
00:20:34,180 –> 00:20:38,300
I see that as if you’re going to be that people of christ,

383
00:20:38,310 –> 00:20:40,010
it’s across the board,

384
00:20:40,020 –> 00:20:45,530
although those specific directions to a husband to a wife have to be be handled,

385
00:20:45,540 –> 00:20:55,220
but if the idea that someone would walk away with that is I’m going to be domineering and I’m going to be oppressive and unkind towards my spouse.

386
00:20:55,230 –> 00:20:58,470
That just doesn’t jive with what the bible says,

387
00:20:58,480 –> 00:20:59,970
dominance is never okay,

388
00:20:59,980 –> 00:21:02,030
being a good christ follower,

389
00:21:02,030 –> 00:21:04,860
you cannot be a dominant domineering person.

390
00:21:04,860 –> 00:21:06,220
Our example is jesus,

391
00:21:06,380 –> 00:21:14,590
he showed up in the most humble way possible and died in the most embarrassing way possible at the time because he loved us so much.

392
00:21:14,600 –> 00:21:16,720
Everything we have comes from God,

393
00:21:16,720 –> 00:21:20,470
giving of himself to us and he doesn’t get anything back.

394
00:21:20,830 –> 00:21:23,750
There’s nothing that he gains from us,

395
00:21:23,750 –> 00:21:26,310
He gives everything out of love.

396
00:21:26,360 –> 00:21:29,510
God has the power to be dominant and he’s not,

397
00:21:29,750 –> 00:21:30,050
you know,

398
00:21:30,050 –> 00:21:30,560
Yes,

399
00:21:30,560 –> 00:21:31,860
he is supreme.

400
00:21:31,860 –> 00:21:32,050
Yes,

401
00:21:32,050 –> 00:21:32,980
he is sovereign,

402
00:21:32,990 –> 00:21:42,920
but his nature is to give and domineering and dominance is just not uh the way christians live,

403
00:21:42,930 –> 00:21:50,640
that’s not what you do and that doesn’t matter what level of leadership where you are um in the church outside the church and this is the great thing.

404
00:21:50,640 –> 00:21:55,640
We have the opportunity we have as a couple because we,

405
00:21:55,890 –> 00:22:03,230
when we follow these household regulations that are these household rules that paul puts out,

406
00:22:03,240 –> 00:22:08,910
we get to be an example to our church family and to our neighborhood,

407
00:22:08,910 –> 00:22:09,750
to our community,

408
00:22:09,750 –> 00:22:18,130
to our co workers about what true loving and truly living in God’s kingdom looks like that’s very much the case.

409
00:22:18,130 –> 00:22:21,280
And you look at the book of titus very quickly.

410
00:22:21,280 –> 00:22:36,260
It it talks about doing your duties and your roles that are supposed to be connected to the household and I would argue that that’s going to be different between what the different households are and how you’ve structured how,

411
00:22:36,270 –> 00:22:38,850
how chores would be taken care of.

412
00:22:38,860 –> 00:22:39,510
But again,

413
00:22:39,510 –> 00:22:40,580
whatever you’re doing,

414
00:22:40,590 –> 00:22:42,550
you do that to the glory of God.

415
00:22:42,560 –> 00:22:52,430
And I think with a lot of things you have to be somewhat liquid that things can change just that that kind of flex and flow.

416
00:22:52,430 –> 00:23:11,780
If you have a spouse who’s sick if you have a spouse who’s out of town due to deployment or otherwise that you’d have to sometimes step up and fill out some duties or maybe you’re changing different duties just as your marriage continues on and the household grows because sometimes when you’re dealing with babies,

417
00:23:11,790 –> 00:23:13,860
you need to be doing laundry all the time.

418
00:23:13,860 –> 00:23:15,200
And that’s just a fact.

419
00:23:15,210 –> 00:23:15,520
Yeah.

420
00:23:15,530 –> 00:23:19,760
So we’ve talked about kind of these household regulations and what it looks like in the home.

421
00:23:19,850 –> 00:23:29,730
Let’s jump a little bit earlier in the bible and talk about the nature of masculinity and femininity rolling all the way.

422
00:23:29,730 –> 00:23:34,320
And we’re probably going to either side of the egalitarian and complementary in argument,

423
00:23:34,320 –> 00:23:35,790
we’re probably going to make both mad,

424
00:23:35,890 –> 00:23:36,320
um,

425
00:23:36,330 –> 00:23:38,670
for those of you who aren’t familiar with those theological terms.

426
00:23:38,670 –> 00:23:46,510
Egalitarian at its most extreme is the idea that men and women creating the image of God are completely equal.

427
00:23:46,510 –> 00:23:48,460
There’s no difference whatsoever.

428
00:23:48,470 –> 00:23:51,630
I know that’s a thumbnail sketch all of you.

429
00:23:51,640 –> 00:23:52,910
Egalitarian theologians.

430
00:23:52,910 –> 00:23:54,070
You can make fun of me later.

431
00:23:54,080 –> 00:23:55,750
That’s the extreme side of it.

432
00:23:55,760 –> 00:24:02,980
On the extreme complimentary inside is the difference the coinciding differences between men and women.

433
00:24:02,990 –> 00:24:08,170
And they’ve taken that to the point where women belong in the home belong doing the dishes,

434
00:24:08,180 –> 00:24:14,100
making the food a lot of those traditional agrarian roles that women took on while the men were outside home.

435
00:24:14,100 –> 00:24:20,780
So those are the extreme examples on this continuum and we’re not on either side of that totally.

436
00:24:20,780 –> 00:24:21,790
But we do want to talk about,

437
00:24:21,790 –> 00:24:27,420
there is something about masculinity and femininity and there are differences.

438
00:24:27,560 –> 00:24:30,720
Men and women aren’t just biologically and physically different.

439
00:24:31,110 –> 00:24:39,930
And this is documented time and time again about how women perceive even something as simple as you see more colors than I do.

440
00:24:39,950 –> 00:24:41,090
And truth.

441
00:24:41,100 –> 00:24:52,590
We joke about this when we’re picking paint colors and finally we just give up and you pick the paint color because I can’t see the difference of the colors in genesis 2 18 The Lord God said it is not good for the man to be alone.

442
00:24:52,600 –> 00:24:57,190
I will make a command a companion for him who corresponds to him,

443
00:24:57,200 –> 00:25:00,550
that companion who corresponds to him.

444
00:25:00,560 –> 00:25:06,550
That is traditionally translated with the english word helper.

445
00:25:07,300 –> 00:25:15,000
And what’s your reaction when you hear that woman was created to be man’s help.

446
00:25:15,010 –> 00:25:17,410
What’s your initial reaction to hearing that?

447
00:25:17,420 –> 00:25:17,740
Well,

448
00:25:17,740 –> 00:25:21,060
I think it’s about taking it in the context of what the bible is,

449
00:25:21,070 –> 00:25:21,440
right,

450
00:25:21,450 –> 00:25:32,190
because God describes himself as a helper to people and he’s the ceo the creator of the youth universe,

451
00:25:32,200 –> 00:25:37,310
but he’s still there to be helpful to us as his Children.

452
00:25:37,320 –> 00:25:39,970
I’m I’m there to help Jonathan,

453
00:25:39,970 –> 00:25:40,910
our 10 year old,

454
00:25:40,910 –> 00:25:43,130
although sometimes I’m giving him way more help,

455
00:25:43,130 –> 00:25:52,600
which I’m and I’m sure that that for a given task and I’m sure that God is continually giving me more help in a given task than I’m even understanding,

456
00:25:52,630 –> 00:26:03,170
but I think that that’s the thing where the woman was created not to be a slave or a complete servant of the man,

457
00:26:03,180 –> 00:26:06,130
but to be that corresponding helper.

458
00:26:06,140 –> 00:26:07,690
But he was already there.

459
00:26:07,690 –> 00:26:14,650
So I’m thinking he’s there to be that corresponding helper for her as well under the lordship of of God.

460
00:26:14,660 –> 00:26:17,510
A lot of people have a problem with that word helper though,

461
00:26:17,510 –> 00:26:17,920
right?

462
00:26:18,130 –> 00:26:18,360
You know,

463
00:26:18,360 –> 00:26:25,710
a lot of people feel that helper is by definition the way helper is thought of in our culture,

464
00:26:25,720 –> 00:26:33,440
they think of helper as being less than even how we use it in professional like teaching or um environments.

465
00:26:33,440 –> 00:26:34,710
You’ve got the teacher’s helper,

466
00:26:34,720 –> 00:26:38,030
you’ve got the teacher and then you got the teacher’s helper.

467
00:26:38,160 –> 00:26:42,940
Teacher’s helper is important but they can’t do anything on their own.

468
00:26:42,950 –> 00:26:47,690
They only do what the teacher tells them and that’s not the intent,

469
00:26:47,690 –> 00:26:48,390
which I like,

470
00:26:48,410 –> 00:26:53,750
I like the N E T translation better because it translates that word and for the bible nerds,

471
00:26:53,760 –> 00:26:57,650
it’s the word eser is the word used and like jen said,

472
00:26:57,670 –> 00:27:05,370
God uses that word to describe himself a lot in this um not a rock band but sounds like it.

473
00:27:05,380 –> 00:27:11,610
Wheezer did an awesome cover of Toto’s africa easer is the word that God uses for helper.

474
00:27:11,620 –> 00:27:17,810
There’s this article in judaica in 86 by Rosenzweig,

475
00:27:17,820 –> 00:27:20,420
I apologize sir if I totally brutalized your name,

476
00:27:20,670 –> 00:27:30,820
but at the end of it says the woman would supply what the man was lacking in the design of creation and logically it would follow that the man would supply what she was lacking.

477
00:27:30,830 –> 00:27:32,430
Although it is not stated here.

478
00:27:32,580 –> 00:27:34,740
So here’s what the helper does.

479
00:27:34,750 –> 00:27:38,830
They bring something to the table that the original did not have.

480
00:27:38,850 –> 00:27:42,080
So you bring something to the table that I don’t have.

481
00:27:42,140 –> 00:27:42,700
You know,

482
00:27:42,710 –> 00:27:43,750
your intellect,

483
00:27:43,750 –> 00:27:45,160
your way of doing things.

484
00:27:45,160 –> 00:27:49,310
You bring something to our marriage and something to me that was lacking.

485
00:27:49,350 –> 00:27:50,900
Oh and likewise you for me,

486
00:27:50,900 –> 00:27:51,240
right?

487
00:27:51,250 –> 00:27:51,820
Absolutely.

488
00:27:51,830 –> 00:27:52,760
And you,

489
00:27:52,770 –> 00:27:54,780
you are the one who’s structured,

490
00:27:54,790 –> 00:28:08,360
You’re the one who’s planning and organizing and gets very specific and you are also really good at making sure we’re accomplishing something as a family that we’re moving forward that we’re doing something that we’re being responsible.

491
00:28:08,410 –> 00:28:09,370
That’s very true.

492
00:28:09,370 –> 00:28:15,010
Although looking at the top of my desk or the organizational thing would say otherwise.

493
00:28:15,010 –> 00:28:16,010
But that’s very true.

494
00:28:16,010 –> 00:28:23,600
We like to be regimented in some of these things and make sure that that’s good to go for the family and I’m the one that’s going to bring spontaneity always.

495
00:28:23,610 –> 00:28:25,140
I’m the one that’s going to,

496
00:28:25,340 –> 00:28:26,510
let’s go play.

497
00:28:26,560 –> 00:28:28,810
This is just let’s go do something crazy.

498
00:28:28,890 –> 00:28:30,100
And then you look at me,

499
00:28:30,100 –> 00:28:30,370
it’s like,

500
00:28:30,370 –> 00:28:30,670
okay,

501
00:28:30,670 –> 00:28:34,630
that’s really crazy and then I convinced you to do the crazy thing with me.

502
00:28:35,440 –> 00:28:38,810
I’m checking the funds to make sure we can facilitate the crazy.

503
00:28:38,820 –> 00:28:42,110
Like buying my beautiful 55 gallon saltwater aquarium that I enjoy.

504
00:28:42,120 –> 00:28:42,620
Oh that’s,

505
00:28:42,620 –> 00:28:45,270
that’s another podcast episode altogether babe.

506
00:28:45,280 –> 00:28:48,990
But then also at the same time when it comes to discipline,

507
00:28:49,040 –> 00:28:52,710
I’m more comfortable in the role of okay,

508
00:28:52,720 –> 00:28:55,080
now we’re going to enforce the discipline with the Children,

509
00:28:55,090 –> 00:28:56,240
not that you don’t,

510
00:28:56,240 –> 00:28:57,400
you discipline the Children,

511
00:28:57,410 –> 00:29:00,490
but I’m more comfortable in that role and as parents,

512
00:29:00,500 –> 00:29:01,530
as a team,

513
00:29:01,810 –> 00:29:03,750
I’m the one who oftentimes is bringing the,

514
00:29:03,750 –> 00:29:05,880
okay now we’re gonna do this,

515
00:29:05,890 –> 00:29:08,520
you’re the one making sure our family structure and everything.

516
00:29:08,520 –> 00:29:18,040
But when it comes down to one of us has to get control of the Children a little more and communicate discipline and enforce um those consequences.

517
00:29:18,050 –> 00:29:18,940
I’m my temperament,

518
00:29:18,940 –> 00:29:19,920
I’m more comfortable with that.

519
00:29:19,930 –> 00:29:21,050
That’s very true.

520
00:29:21,060 –> 00:29:27,660
Also we need to leave room to say we’re talking about our marriage and this is how we’ve worked it out.

521
00:29:27,670 –> 00:29:30,330
But there are so many different people,

522
00:29:30,330 –> 00:29:34,960
different talents and in their marriages where they can be very,

523
00:29:34,960 –> 00:29:38,640
very successful in their marriages even though they’re very different.

524
00:29:38,650 –> 00:29:44,440
And brian was kind of looking at me because I was googling on my cell phone because this is the podcast,

525
00:29:44,920 –> 00:29:45,330
right?

526
00:29:45,340 –> 00:29:48,270
But brian is looking at me weird because I’m googling on my cell phone,

527
00:29:48,270 –> 00:29:48,870
ralph Lauren,

528
00:29:48,870 –> 00:29:49,220
he’s like,

529
00:29:49,220 –> 00:29:49,500
gosh,

530
00:29:49,500 –> 00:29:52,220
are you shopping while we’re recording this podcast?

531
00:29:52,280 –> 00:30:01,070
But I was looking up Ralph Lauren personally because a lot of times people will think of women as being for Very fashion forward.

532
00:30:01,070 –> 00:30:03,860
But he’s a very successful designer.

533
00:30:03,860 –> 00:30:07,420
So he might have more of that eye for color than I’m gonna have.

534
00:30:07,450 –> 00:30:08,740
Even as a woman,

535
00:30:08,750 –> 00:30:14,910
he’s been married since 1960 for and he and his wife have three Children together.

536
00:30:14,940 –> 00:30:22,500
So even though he’s not necessarily in a stereotypical industry being led by men,

537
00:30:22,500 –> 00:30:28,550
he certainly is a man who has the lead in that particular company and has been very successful at that.

538
00:30:28,560 –> 00:30:32,650
And I’d be interested to peek into how his family is because again,

539
00:30:32,660 –> 00:30:34,920
happily married since 1964.

540
00:30:34,940 –> 00:30:35,320
Yeah,

541
00:30:35,320 –> 00:30:36,170
that’s interesting.

542
00:30:36,170 –> 00:30:37,560
And you make a good point.

543
00:30:37,570 –> 00:30:41,040
We share illustrations from our marriage because that’s the marriage we know best.

544
00:30:41,240 –> 00:30:52,030
But it’s definitely there are things that are moving and it’s different for your marriage and we don’t want to ever say your marriage should be like our marriage because it absolutely shouldn’t because you’re not us,

545
00:30:52,260 –> 00:30:58,080
but at the same time we do want to say that you complement each other,

546
00:30:58,500 –> 00:30:59,870
whatever that is,

547
00:30:59,880 –> 00:31:05,600
You bring something to your spouse that they need and your spouse brings something to you that you need.

548
00:31:05,610 –> 00:31:09,850
And it’s very unique to your relationship.

549
00:31:09,860 –> 00:31:17,220
But it’s important that you acknowledge that and are ready to work in that.

550
00:31:17,230 –> 00:31:20,740
And sometimes it’s going to be clear from,

551
00:31:20,750 –> 00:31:21,080
hey,

552
00:31:21,080 –> 00:31:22,890
this is what things look like in the bible.

553
00:31:22,890 –> 00:31:25,970
Sometimes you’re gonna look at things and look at the side again,

554
00:31:26,330 –> 00:31:32,800
an asian family versus the north american families structure is going to be different because the culture is different.

555
00:31:32,800 –> 00:31:34,510
That’s okay different parts of the world.

556
00:31:34,520 –> 00:31:36,010
It’s going to be different.

557
00:31:36,020 –> 00:31:43,180
You need to define those roles and you need to allow yourselves and each other to be complements to each other.

558
00:31:43,240 –> 00:31:45,990
That’s really where it comes down to in gender roles.

559
00:31:46,000 –> 00:31:48,680
It’s not the woman will do this,

560
00:31:48,690 –> 00:31:49,930
the man will do this.

561
00:31:50,000 –> 00:31:54,040
There are uniqueness is there are differences where they complement each other,

562
00:31:54,050 –> 00:32:00,400
but you need to define what your roles are and you need to work to complement each other.

563
00:32:00,400 –> 00:32:02,860
If you want to thrive as a couple,

564
00:32:02,910 –> 00:32:04,630
it can’t be competition,

565
00:32:04,790 –> 00:32:06,970
it can’t be dominance,

566
00:32:07,010 –> 00:32:09,400
it can’t be my way or the highway.

567
00:32:09,410 –> 00:32:13,000
And it can’t be one of those situations where,

568
00:32:13,150 –> 00:32:13,500
you know,

569
00:32:13,500 –> 00:32:16,440
we teach our kids when they’re playing games when you’ve got it.

570
00:32:16,440 –> 00:32:17,370
You got it,

571
00:32:17,370 –> 00:32:17,670
I got it,

572
00:32:17,670 –> 00:32:18,100
I got it.

573
00:32:18,110 –> 00:32:19,720
You cannot be out there,

574
00:32:19,720 –> 00:32:20,250
you get it,

575
00:32:20,250 –> 00:32:20,690
you get it,

576
00:32:20,690 –> 00:32:21,220
you get it,

577
00:32:21,230 –> 00:32:22,390
you gotta work together.

578
00:32:22,400 –> 00:32:23,380
Hey,

579
00:32:23,390 –> 00:32:25,430
I’m going to use a baseball analogy here,

580
00:32:25,440 –> 00:32:26,580
You’re in center field,

581
00:32:26,590 –> 00:32:27,460
I’m in right field.

582
00:32:27,470 –> 00:32:28,600
If it’s in right field,

583
00:32:28,610 –> 00:32:29,160
I got it.

584
00:32:29,170 –> 00:32:30,300
If it’s in center field,

585
00:32:30,310 –> 00:32:31,690
then I don’t have to tell you,

586
00:32:31,690 –> 00:32:33,390
you got it because you’re gonna be yelling at me.

587
00:32:33,390 –> 00:32:33,910
I got it,

588
00:32:33,910 –> 00:32:34,370
I got it,

589
00:32:34,380 –> 00:32:39,880
I got it and we got to fill those gaps together and there will be conflict.

590
00:32:40,390 –> 00:32:44,870
There’s gonna be times where you disagree on what it is,

591
00:32:44,870 –> 00:32:50,810
especially early on in marriage when you’re just learning how to live together,

592
00:32:50,820 –> 00:32:51,780
there’s gonna be conflict.

593
00:32:51,780 –> 00:32:54,610
But also every phase when things change,

594
00:32:54,850 –> 00:32:56,210
there’s gonna be conflict.

595
00:32:56,740 –> 00:33:05,270
And so you’ve got to work that conflict out together and be comfortable discussing that and then building that relationship,

596
00:33:05,280 –> 00:33:06,750
identifying those roles,

597
00:33:06,750 –> 00:33:08,060
complimenting each other.

598
00:33:08,060 –> 00:33:10,630
Then you can move forward together as a couple.

599
00:33:11,060 –> 00:33:14,390
Thank you for joining us on the operation thriving marriage podcast.

600
00:33:14,720 –> 00:33:24,960
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601
00:33:25,070 –> 00:33:26,780
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602
00:33:26,790 –> 00:33:29,350
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00:33:29,350 –> 00:33:30,840
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605
00:33:32,820 –> 00:33:37,500
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606
00:33:37,500 –> 00:33:38,540
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607
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609
00:33:47,890 –> 00:33:54,140
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610
00:33:54,150 –> 00:33:57,310
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616
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617
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618
00:34:13,350 –> 00:34:17,000
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619
00:34:17,010 –> 00:34:18,690
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1
00:00:10,260 –> 00:00:13,800
one of my favorites too is of course media like television shows,

2
00:00:13,810 –> 00:00:22,550
you don’t want to base your expectations of marriage off of media and tv shows and movies that that’s just going to get you in trouble,

3
00:00:22,560 –> 00:00:22,900
wait a minute,

4
00:00:22,910 –> 00:00:31,510
you’re telling me that every conflict can be resolved in 55 minutes with commercials shockingly not especially those legal dramas right?

5
00:00:31,520 –> 00:00:31,940
It’s like,

6
00:00:31,940 –> 00:00:34,100
hey that that serious sex in the city,

7
00:00:34,110 –> 00:00:35,550
so amusing,

8
00:00:35,550 –> 00:00:42,690
but you don’t want to live into that choice.

9
00:00:42,690 –> 00:00:43,830
Away from driving,

10
00:00:44,520 –> 00:00:45,750
welcome to the operation.

11
00:00:54,040 –> 00:00:54,630
Alright,

12
00:00:54,630 –> 00:00:57,980
so we’re back in the studio and having a great day,

13
00:00:57,980 –> 00:00:58,700
how you doing today,

14
00:00:58,700 –> 00:00:59,160
sweetie,

15
00:00:59,170 –> 00:01:00,130
Hey things are going well,

16
00:01:00,130 –> 00:01:00,710
things are going well,

17
00:01:00,710 –> 00:01:03,350
how about you doing all right over here?

18
00:01:03,350 –> 00:01:24,165
I I think that just just kinda work wise and otherwise we’re kind of rolling into the christmas season and just trying to make sure that we’re getting all the things done uh so that we’re able to enjoy some of these festivities and keep some of these holiday traditions that we have as a family and and into the greater community here,

19
00:01:24,175 –> 00:01:32,640
that kind of fits in well with our topic today right with un expectations because with two kids and christmas coming up plus a birthday coming up,

20
00:01:32,640 –> 00:01:33,940
we’ve got a lot of expectations.

21
00:01:33,940 –> 00:01:34,870
We got two birthdays,

22
00:01:34,870 –> 00:01:35,460
my friends,

23
00:01:35,460 –> 00:01:36,660
the only one that matters,

24
00:01:36,670 –> 00:01:40,940
oh well we got your birthday and Brenda’s birthday but mine is the only one that matters.

25
00:01:40,950 –> 00:01:44,040
Oh I thought we were saying that jesus was the only one that matters but you know,

26
00:01:44,040 –> 00:01:46,090
we’ll just kind of kind of roll about that one.

27
00:01:46,100 –> 00:01:46,600
Yeah.

28
00:01:46,600 –> 00:02:05,257
I think that the the expectations are a big thing that that’s important to manage because it it just seems like every disagreement every time someone’s feelings are hurt every time there’s some relational issues that’s going to be because expectations were met and but that’s kind of your job too,

29
00:02:05,257 –> 00:02:05,647
right?

30
00:02:05,657 –> 00:02:08,677
I mean as a lawyer isn’t a big part of your job,

31
00:02:08,677 –> 00:02:10,657
just managing people’s expectations.

32
00:02:10,667 –> 00:02:15,807
I think it’s forever managing expectations because sometimes people come to me and it’s,

33
00:02:15,817 –> 00:02:17,387
the idea is,

34
00:02:17,397 –> 00:02:17,997
you know,

35
00:02:17,997 –> 00:02:26,344
you’re you’re the overpaid janitor who’s going to be cleaning up the big mess that it happened and I’m happy to come in and help clients as I’m able to do.

36
00:02:26,344 –> 00:02:34,704
But sometimes people do have big gaps and expectations just as to what the law would provide for them and what is actually going to be happening.

37
00:02:34,704 –> 00:02:47,931
So it’s really important for me to get in there and let them know what what their legal rights are and what their responsibilities are by law and just kind of see what we can do to uh figure Things out.

38
00:02:47,931 –> 00:02:50,781
Because I always tell people any time that there’s going to be a legal dispute,

39
00:02:50,781 –> 00:02:54,071
nobody’s getting a pony that that’s just not happening.

40
00:02:54,161 –> 00:03:01,591
And you’ve talked about this before with estate plans that you’ve drawn up to just letting people reasonable expectations of what they can put in their estate plan.

41
00:03:01,591 –> 00:03:07,191
You cannot say that sister sally will feed my turtle to worms every day at 3:00.

42
00:03:07,191 –> 00:03:17,960
There’s limits to what they can even put in their documentation and then obviously we have this idea of what is right or what is wrong or what we should or shouldn’t be able to do.

43
00:03:17,960 –> 00:03:27,430
But the law is written by lawyers and legislators and it doesn’t really take into account my personal feelings about it no doubt about it.

44
00:03:27,430 –> 00:03:28,600
And and side note too,

45
00:03:28,600 –> 00:03:31,200
if here’s your free legal advice for the day,

46
00:03:31,200 –> 00:03:34,460
which is just as far as uh personal property,

47
00:03:34,460 –> 00:03:40,370
like if you want to leave julie or or other personal effects to somebody and you’re not using it now,

48
00:03:40,370 –> 00:03:49,980
give it to them now so you can see them enjoy it during their lifetime because I see that tangible personal property like the jewelry you passed away and it disappears because somebody took it.

49
00:03:50,140 –> 00:03:50,350
Yeah,

50
00:03:50,350 –> 00:03:51,420
that’s that’s a good point.

51
00:03:51,430 –> 00:03:52,260
So yeah.

52
00:03:52,270 –> 00:03:59,350
And they were expecting to get one thing like you said and pay attention this as you’re listening because I think this is really important.

53
00:03:59,440 –> 00:04:07,450
Every fight you’ve ever had in your marriage started because of an unmet expectation.

54
00:04:07,510 –> 00:04:08,480
Isn’t that the truth?

55
00:04:08,490 –> 00:04:09,310
Everything we argue about.

56
00:04:09,310 –> 00:04:15,150
I mean it’s an expectation and then we talk to these young couples that are getting ready to be married and they’re they’re all,

57
00:04:15,160 –> 00:04:17,300
I have no expectations.

58
00:04:17,300 –> 00:04:23,110
They just go with the flow or its communicate in some way that if I expect something,

59
00:04:23,110 –> 00:04:23,450
it’s bad.

60
00:04:23,450 –> 00:04:28,840
If I if I expect you to do this or that that expectation is wrong,

61
00:04:28,840 –> 00:04:34,590
I shouldn’t expect anything of you and I should just be happy with whatever you bring to the marriage and whatever is going on.

62
00:04:34,600 –> 00:04:35,640
That doesn’t really make sense though,

63
00:04:35,640 –> 00:04:36,070
does it?

64
00:04:36,080 –> 00:04:38,180
That’s just not how a marriage can run that.

65
00:04:38,180 –> 00:04:40,290
That’s not how a society can run either.

66
00:04:40,290 –> 00:04:42,460
Because just for traffic rules,

67
00:04:42,460 –> 00:04:48,390
you have to have the expectation that people are going to follow the rules and stay on their side of the street or else there’s chaos.

68
00:04:48,400 –> 00:04:53,470
And I think that’s certainly the same in the marriage relationship or any other relation to Yeah,

69
00:04:53,480 –> 00:04:55,780
expectations in themselves aren’t bad.

70
00:04:55,790 –> 00:04:59,160
It’s not bad to expect your spouse to be faithful.

71
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It’s not bad to expect that the house will be clean.

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It depends on the day.

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But no,

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I I hear you,

75
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we wanna,

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you know,

77
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but we want to have a certain level of cleanliness and kind of schedule from for cleaning things up.

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Yeah.

79
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And also,

80
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I mean,

81
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just from from the christian perspective,

82
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God expects a lot of us,

83
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you know,

84
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it’s not just okay,

85
00:05:21,100 –> 00:05:23,600
I believe in you God and I can do whatever I want.

86
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You look through scripture.

87
00:05:24,770 –> 00:05:32,150
I mean paul in those letters is laying out these are my expectations because these are God’s expectations.

88
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And the big one of course is jesus said um that if we loved him we would follow his commands that we would do what he said?

89
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And God says to us in Leviticus be holy as I am holy.

90
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And it’s it’s not just that’s not just made up,

91
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that’s a pretty high expectation.

92
00:05:46,030 –> 00:05:56,680
Well it it’s a high expectation but I mean talk about rights and responsibilities that were talked about a little bit before because um when you do enter into God’s family,

93
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you have significant rights and significant benefits.

94
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But God just like the bed father in the world because he is,

95
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he’s going to have some significant expectations of us just as to the rules that we’re going to fill and the things that are required of us.

96
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And of course coming into the family has to happen before all of these rules can attach.

97
00:06:18,610 –> 00:06:21,800
You can’t try to conquer the rules and then enter the family.

98
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You need to accept christ’s gift to us to enter that family,

99
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right?

100
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I mean God expects us to grow in christ likeness and that’s why we’re here to learn to live that kingdom living.

101
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But in marriage,

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like we talked about every fight comes from an unmet expectation and unmet expectations.

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There’s a few common reasons that the expectation would be unmet.

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And in the book we call these un expectations and one is unveiled,

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voiced expectations that aren’t communicated unshared presumed norms.

106
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And then unreasonable expectations.

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Talk a little bit about invoiced expectations.

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What is when we’re talking about that in the book?

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Are we talking about unmet expectations.

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invoiced,

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How does that fit in?

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Oh,

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and I think that that’s just such a tough thing because it’s a lot of assumptions there because those un voice expectations are those expectations that just aren’t communicated.

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And someone in the marriage,

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one spouse can be upset or offended that the other spouse’s handling say spending or habits or going out with friends or whatever the case may be in a certain way,

116
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but that other spouse expect to be a different way.

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Nothing was voiced and communicated to to the other spouse.

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So the other spouse things,

119
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everything’s coming up roses and good to go.

120
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But the other spouse,

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00:07:38,972 –> 00:07:43,112
they had the other expectations doesn’t feel that way and that can lead to a lot of conflict,

122
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especially if it’s not communicated and discussed communication again,

123
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it just seems like a lot of this ends up coming just back to communication,

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we have to talk about it.

125
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So that’s the truth.

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I think that’s a big thing too,

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is when you’re looking at something and what you expected to happen didn’t happen.

128
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I think that’s the first stop.

129
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Is did I even say anything.

130
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Did I tell so I tell my spouse this is what I expected to happen.

131
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I think that that’s a huge thing.

132
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Um and I think when approaching a spouse about that,

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it’s just kind of like goodness.

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I I thought that something else completely different was going to happen and this other thing happened.

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So I don’t think that that confrontation if you will should come from a place of I know best or my way is the best or the only way to do it.

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It’s just,

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wow,

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I had a completely different expectation and understanding of what was going to happen,

139
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right?

140
00:08:37,330 –> 00:08:38,670
That team marriage concept,

141
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we’re always talking about presume goodwill,

142
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presume that they didn’t intend for you to upset you or hurt you.

143
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Presume that they want the marriage to be successful because they do just didn’t know about it.

144
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That’s it.

145
00:08:50,090 –> 00:08:52,770
And we also talked but unshared expectations.

146
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These expectations are presumed norms,

147
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things that aren’t the same though,

148
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I presume that this is the way the world works.

149
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And some of the places we get this from me and our family of origin is huge,

150
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right?

151
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We learn first what a marriage looks like by watching our parents marriage or we learn what we want or don’t want depending on how we view our parents marriage,

152
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but expectations for marriage first come from the first marriage we see or if we come from a family where it’s a single parent,

153
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it’s the relationship that that single parent has if any with other romantic partners,

154
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it’s like you see a boyfriend or a girlfriend come home,

155
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things like that,

156
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we learn what people should or should not do we presume based on what we watch when we’re Children.

157
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Well,

158
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sure,

159
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it’s like that,

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that’s the family of origin that you’re coming out of just has such a substantial impact on you whether you know it or not what so you wanted to or not because it is modeling how you would just think every household would be.

161
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And I think a lot of times people getting into maybe their teens,

162
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they can see that there can be some differences.

163
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But of course you’re going to assume that’s how everybody grows up right?

164
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Because you don’t know any better.

165
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I mean that’s always the problem with cross cultural mission stuff as well.

166
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Right.

167
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We think that everyone has the same value system as we do here in America because we haven’t experienced it.

168
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Otherwise that’s one thing I’m grateful for growing up as an army brat is I got to travel and see things and learn,

169
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oh wait a minute.

170
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What we value here in America is different from what they value in other countries and the same is so true with family of origin.

171
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I mean your family growing up was so different from mine.

172
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You guys pretty much stayed in michigan except for that brief stint in Tennessee and just kind of lived in the suburbs of Detroit where I had the expectations every three or four years we were moving and even like when we first got married we were living in that condo and after three years I’m like man,

173
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we’ve lived here a long time,

174
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it’s time to move because I was so used to moving around so much.

175
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Oh,

176
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certainly,

177
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but it,

178
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but I think that um,

179
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societies,

180
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different cultures,

181
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different countries,

182
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what your nationality is,

183
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that that’s always going to have a substantial impact.

184
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And sometimes it can be hilarious because everybody identifies with the movie,

185
00:11:06,096 –> 00:11:11,176
my big fat greek wedding and just plug in whatever cultural kind of family that,

186
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that you’d be coming out of into that just because there’s always something that’s going to be different from mainstream America and that’s okay.

187
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But just try to understand what the differences are.

188
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I guess the big thing about that too is every marriage and extent is my big fat greek wedding,

189
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right?

190
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Because I mean,

191
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it’s very obvious when you have the typical middle class american guy marrying into this proud greek family with that significantly different experience than that typical middle class american.

192
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But even getting out my Windex right now brian.

193
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But even if you are,

194
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if you come from the same town,

195
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you still have,

196
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it’s still just as different.

197
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It’s just not as obviously different because it’s easier to presume if you both come from the same socioeconomic background that you live the same,

198
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we went to the same high school or similar high schools in the same town.

199
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We went to the same college,

200
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Things like that,

201
00:12:03,350 –> 00:12:06,110
we can think that there’s more in common than there really is.

202
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No,

203
00:12:06,240 –> 00:12:07,050
no doubt about it.

204
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I think you,

205
00:12:07,740 –> 00:12:09,200
you saw that a little bit on um,

206
00:12:09,210 –> 00:12:10,405
maybe you did brian,

207
00:12:10,405 –> 00:12:10,785
but on the,

208
00:12:10,785 –> 00:12:11,945
on the Gilmore girls,

209
00:12:11,945 –> 00:12:12,295
you know,

210
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I did not,

211
00:12:12,805 –> 00:12:14,565
I did not see that on the Gilmore girls.

212
00:12:14,565 –> 00:12:17,765
Just the idea of Rory’s best friends,

213
00:12:17,765 –> 00:12:23,155
family is a christian korean family and her mom wanted her to marry a christian guy who was korean.

214
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So even in that situation,

215
00:12:24,925 –> 00:12:27,345
the families themselves are going to be different.

216
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And another place we get unshared expectations about marriage,

217
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those from our friends,

218
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you know,

219
00:12:32,565 –> 00:12:36,775
people talk about marriage and it starts when you’re,

220
00:12:37,080 –> 00:12:39,990
I mean for some of us it starts when we’re in middle school or high school,

221
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this idea of what it’s gonna be like to be married and be adults and we dream and stuff and then as an adult,

222
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um single,

223
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you’re meeting friends are even married and you talk about,

224
00:12:50,190 –> 00:12:55,280
talk to your friends about their marriage is there’s a lot of expectations that can come just from friends saying,

225
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oh,

226
00:12:55,530 –> 00:12:56,570
this is how it ought to be,

227
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this is how it should be,

228
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or this is how my marriages and oh,

229
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it’s so wonderful or it’s so awful depending on their experience.

230
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Oh,

231
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sure.

232
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And just hearing even friends,

233
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aunts and uncles getting married or older siblings and you just hear a lot of things about that and and that’s going to have a big influence on,

234
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on what your expectations are going to be right or wrong for what your marriage is ultimately going to be,

235
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maybe better,

236
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maybe worse.

237
00:13:22,005 –> 00:13:22,505
Yeah,

238
00:13:22,515 –> 00:13:23,675
it’s tricky definitely.

239
00:13:23,685 –> 00:13:27,455
I think of times when I’ve been away for different schools or different environments,

240
00:13:27,455 –> 00:13:29,375
when I’ve been away from military and spending a lot of time together,

241
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we end up talking about our families.

242
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Sometimes someone will say something,

243
00:13:33,095 –> 00:13:34,225
they’ll be like,

244
00:13:34,480 –> 00:13:39,490
that is absolutely how it should be or this is what marriage is and you’re thinking where did that come from?

245
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If you’re not critical about the people you around,

246
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it’s really easy for me when I’m going away in a different environment.

247
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Okay,

248
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this is clearly different.

249
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But sometimes the people that you work with,

250
00:13:48,180 –> 00:13:53,790
you can start hearing these thoughts about how marriage should be and if you’re not critical and thinking about it,

251
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say,

252
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hey,

253
00:13:54,080 –> 00:13:54,570
wait a minute.

254
00:13:54,580 –> 00:13:57,970
Just because this group is all agreeing with that,

255
00:13:57,980 –> 00:13:59,060
they may not even all agree with.

256
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And certainly if your spouse isn’t there agreeing with it,

257
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then that expectation is unshared.

258
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Yes.

259
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And and I think that God gives us a lot of freedom in marriage to express him and reflect him to the world.

260
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We’ve talked before about just the concept of marriage can in some ways,

261
00:14:18,770 –> 00:14:24,631
really reflect the trinity because God is three and one and a couple is two people,

262
00:14:24,631 –> 00:14:33,711
but that one marriage unit these expressions of God are going to be very different and you can have a christian marriage a holy marriage,

263
00:14:33,721 –> 00:14:40,001
a thriving marriage in very different context with different things in place,

264
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but that honors God.

265
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It’s just important to have those fundamentals in place.

266
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You just have to know where those expectations coming from.

267
00:14:46,001 –> 00:14:49,651
And then one of my favorites too is of course media like television shows,

268
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You don’t want to base your expectations of marriage or singleness or really much of anything off of media and TV shows and movies that that’s just going to get you in trouble.

269
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Wait a minute.

270
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You’re telling me that every conflict can be resolved in 55 minutes with commercials shockingly not especially those legal dramas,

271
00:15:09,782 –> 00:15:10,352
right?

272
00:15:10,362 –> 00:15:10,792
It’s like,

273
00:15:10,792 –> 00:15:12,952
hey that that serious sex in the city,

274
00:15:12,962 –> 00:15:23,173
so amusing but you don’t want to live into that because they’ve got different ideas and they’ve got writers that just make everything all work out in the end and that’s not always so for life.

275
00:15:23,183 –> 00:15:24,793
Well they also get to do retakes.

276
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They can,

277
00:15:25,333 –> 00:15:25,603
they can,

278
00:15:25,613 –> 00:15:30,673
they can have that argument five or six times and whichever one comes out the best they do.

279
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We’ve seen this.

280
00:15:31,713 –> 00:15:33,263
I mean instagram,

281
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whatever different social media stuff.

282
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There’s so many ideas that will get from tv shows,

283
00:15:39,923 –> 00:15:40,443
movies,

284
00:15:40,443 –> 00:15:43,803
media and whatever and those can be unshared expectations as well.

285
00:15:43,813 –> 00:15:45,914
Even just in this little conversation we’re joking around about.

286
00:15:45,924 –> 00:15:47,534
I did not watch Gilmore Girls,

287
00:15:47,534 –> 00:15:50,404
that’s not something that I know you and Brenda really enjoyed watching it.

288
00:15:50,414 –> 00:15:53,774
So any expectation that could have developed out of watching something like that.

289
00:15:53,774 –> 00:15:57,074
It’s not going to be shared because I have no idea what you’re talking about.

290
00:15:57,084 –> 00:15:59,014
You said Rory’s friend was korean.

291
00:15:59,014 –> 00:16:03,444
I didn’t know that until you just told me that those are unshared expectations.

292
00:16:03,454 –> 00:16:04,294
Don’t worry babe.

293
00:16:04,294 –> 00:16:09,814
Because see I I won’t voice these things because we don’t we don’t want to bother you with that kind of deal.

294
00:16:09,814 –> 00:16:10,254
But yes,

295
00:16:10,254 –> 00:16:11,104
you’re absolutely right.

296
00:16:11,125 –> 00:16:12,015
You had talked about you know,

297
00:16:12,015 –> 00:16:20,215
being critical when you’re getting some of these influences just again from friends from from tv shows and movies and and things like that.

298
00:16:20,215 –> 00:16:27,915
And I think critical not that you’re trying to be out there and be down on on things that are out there.

299
00:16:27,915 –> 00:16:36,415
But just the concept of critical thinking which I think we’ve gotten as a culture away from um that it’s just kind of like well does that really match up?

300
00:16:36,415 –> 00:16:37,565
Does that really make sense?

301
00:16:37,565 –> 00:16:39,046
Just really thinking it through?

302
00:16:39,046 –> 00:16:40,680
Is that really how it should be?

303
00:16:40,690 –> 00:16:46,070
Because really what we should be comparing things to is what the scripture tell us and that’s a good point.

304
00:16:46,070 –> 00:16:48,870
We’ll get into that again in a little bit as well because that’s huge.

305
00:16:48,870 –> 00:16:49,200
But yeah,

306
00:16:49,210 –> 00:16:49,760
critical,

307
00:16:49,760 –> 00:16:58,300
not meaning all these all these opinions are bad or these expectations are bad but thinking through where does this come from and bouncing again,

308
00:16:58,300 –> 00:17:01,090
Taking every thought captive as paul tells us in romans.

309
00:17:01,090 –> 00:17:12,030
We gotta take every thought captive including our expectations in marriage and then perhaps the most dangerous or most pernicious one is these unreasonable expectations.

310
00:17:12,040 –> 00:17:21,910
I mean that can get really squirrelly if you expect something and it’s just not possible going out and changing the tire without a jacket and I’m making stuff up.

311
00:17:21,920 –> 00:17:22,670
But there’s,

312
00:17:22,680 –> 00:17:26,190
we have expectations that just aren’t reasonable.

313
00:17:26,190 –> 00:17:27,410
We can’t expect that.

314
00:17:27,420 –> 00:17:35,940
So this is one that you and I had to work through in the past few months as well was trying to figure out dinner because so often,

315
00:17:35,950 –> 00:17:37,910
especially with the covid pandemic,

316
00:17:37,910 –> 00:17:40,850
you’ve been doing a lot of your legal work from home.

317
00:17:40,920 –> 00:17:41,610
And so,

318
00:17:41,620 –> 00:17:43,510
so for me,

319
00:17:43,520 –> 00:17:46,550
my expectation unreasonable.

320
00:17:46,560 –> 00:17:47,040
Hey,

321
00:17:47,040 –> 00:17:47,780
you’re home,

322
00:17:47,780 –> 00:17:50,110
you’re available to do home stuff.

323
00:17:50,120 –> 00:17:52,580
And even it’s like okay for dinner.

324
00:17:52,590 –> 00:17:53,520
Your,

325
00:17:53,530 –> 00:17:54,800
when I say,

326
00:17:54,810 –> 00:17:56,210
since I’m cooking dinner,

327
00:17:56,220 –> 00:17:57,980
um often while you’re working,

328
00:17:57,990 –> 00:17:58,450
when I say,

329
00:17:58,450 –> 00:17:59,010
hey,

330
00:17:59,020 –> 00:17:59,800
oh,

331
00:17:59,810 –> 00:18:01,230
it’s such and such a time.

332
00:18:01,230 –> 00:18:01,970
It’s time for dinner.

333
00:18:01,970 –> 00:18:03,690
That’s not a reasonable expectation.

334
00:18:03,690 –> 00:18:04,390
We had to talk about say,

335
00:18:04,390 –> 00:18:04,780
hey,

336
00:18:05,290 –> 00:18:06,340
you’re going to come out to dinner.

337
00:18:06,340 –> 00:18:07,360
We’re gonna have dinner as a family.

338
00:18:07,360 –> 00:18:09,460
That’s an expectation that we’ve set from the,

339
00:18:09,470 –> 00:18:10,280
from the beginning.

340
00:18:10,290 –> 00:18:15,080
But I can’t just expect you to be in the middle of an email soon as I say,

341
00:18:15,080 –> 00:18:15,490
hey,

342
00:18:15,500 –> 00:18:16,560
dinner’s ready,

343
00:18:16,570 –> 00:18:17,410
you should be here.

344
00:18:17,410 –> 00:18:22,320
That’s an unreasonable expectation and I’m speaking a little more harshly than it came came out.

345
00:18:22,320 –> 00:18:23,190
But I was thinking like,

346
00:18:23,190 –> 00:18:25,480
hey jen what’s taking you so long.

347
00:18:25,480 –> 00:18:29,920
And so we had to have that conversation to give you a little bit more leeway to say,

348
00:18:29,920 –> 00:18:30,100
hey,

349
00:18:30,100 –> 00:18:32,120
dinner’s gonna be ready in such and such a time or hey,

350
00:18:32,120 –> 00:18:33,780
I’m calling the kids up to set the table.

351
00:18:33,780 –> 00:18:34,680
So you know,

352
00:18:34,680 –> 00:18:35,250
you’ve got,

353
00:18:35,390 –> 00:18:39,470
I’ve got two or three minutes to wrap up this last thing so that I can go have dinner with my family.

354
00:18:39,470 –> 00:18:39,590
Oh,

355
00:18:39,590 –> 00:18:39,970
certainly.

356
00:18:39,970 –> 00:18:40,700
And sometimes too,

357
00:18:40,700 –> 00:18:41,500
as you know,

358
00:18:41,500 –> 00:18:42,880
sometimes it’s something where it’s like goodness,

359
00:18:42,880 –> 00:18:48,580
I’m trying to comfort a husband or a wife whose spouse just passed away and they’re,

360
00:18:48,580 –> 00:18:54,620
they’re trying to talk things through with me for the estate and I need to be mindful of,

361
00:18:54,640 –> 00:18:54,860
you know,

362
00:18:54,860 –> 00:18:55,330
dinner,

363
00:18:55,330 –> 00:19:00,300
although that’s not going to be ready at exactly the same time every evening.

364
00:19:00,310 –> 00:19:03,540
Although we’re trying to kind of keep to a bit of that schedule,

365
00:19:03,540 –> 00:19:06,380
but just having the understanding and the compassion of,

366
00:19:06,380 –> 00:19:06,590
you know,

367
00:19:06,590 –> 00:19:09,480
jen might need to take a little bit of extra time with this uh,

368
00:19:09,490 –> 00:19:12,980
this individual because they’ve just experienced the death of a spouse.

369
00:19:12,990 –> 00:19:13,850
Absolutely.

370
00:19:14,040 –> 00:19:21,730
And another thing that I think also unreasonable expectations that I think a lot of couples fall into making their spouse an idol,

371
00:19:21,740 –> 00:19:24,930
trying to get your identity,

372
00:19:24,940 –> 00:19:26,420
your purpose,

373
00:19:26,430 –> 00:19:29,720
your security from your spouse rather than from God.

374
00:19:29,730 –> 00:19:31,700
And that’s a big problem because of course there’s,

375
00:19:31,710 –> 00:19:36,980
there’s always going to be things that only God can fill and only be to us and,

376
00:19:36,980 –> 00:19:41,020
and of course you don’t want to do something that would make your spouse feel insecure,

377
00:19:41,020 –> 00:19:45,790
but your spouse can’t be the sole source of your security because that should be in God,

378
00:19:45,800 –> 00:19:48,600
God that should be your your source of provisions.

379
00:19:48,610 –> 00:19:54,840
But obviously we’re working to earn a living to my core identity is who I am in christ.

380
00:19:54,850 –> 00:19:56,840
An aspect of that is being your husband,

381
00:19:56,840 –> 00:19:58,620
which I enjoy quite a lot by the way.

382
00:19:58,630 –> 00:19:59,710
Likewise thank you.

383
00:19:59,720 –> 00:20:03,780
But my core identity is in christ and I’ve got to look to God for that.

384
00:20:03,790 –> 00:20:05,200
You can’t be God,

385
00:20:05,200 –> 00:20:07,200
you are an amazing awesome lawyer.

386
00:20:07,200 –> 00:20:10,590
You’re a wonderful mom and best wife ever.

387
00:20:11,130 –> 00:20:13,830
But you really are really bad at being God.

388
00:20:13,830 –> 00:20:14,050
Yeah.

389
00:20:14,050 –> 00:20:17,300
I’m a lousy jesus and always will be so can’t look,

390
00:20:17,310 –> 00:20:18,380
I can’t look to me for that,

391
00:20:18,380 –> 00:20:18,830
my friend,

392
00:20:18,840 –> 00:20:20,050
unfortunately a lot of us,

393
00:20:20,050 –> 00:20:26,630
especially the way romance and love is betrayed in stories and books and movies and things like that.

394
00:20:26,640 –> 00:20:39,410
People find this identity and this this myth of the soul mate and all these things that their idea identity comes from the relationships that they’re in and that’s that’s idolatry or status from a relationship.

395
00:20:39,420 –> 00:20:44,380
It’s just I think that some of that can be what are the things that can be idols,

396
00:20:44,380 –> 00:20:45,230
What do they,

397
00:20:45,240 –> 00:20:49,290
they falsely seem to say that they’d be able to provide,

398
00:20:49,290 –> 00:20:50,880
but that they can never do it.

399
00:20:50,890 –> 00:20:51,650
Exactly.

400
00:20:51,650 –> 00:20:51,960
Exactly.

401
00:20:51,970 –> 00:20:55,230
So how do we deal with these un expectations?

402
00:20:55,470 –> 00:20:55,980
You know,

403
00:20:55,990 –> 00:21:07,070
I think that the way that that works out is initially you’d have to identify what is that expectation because I know that I’ve had some things pop up where it’s like,

404
00:21:07,070 –> 00:21:07,390
gosh,

405
00:21:07,390 –> 00:21:11,560
I’m I’m upset about this and I’m not exactly sure why.

406
00:21:11,560 –> 00:21:14,960
So I’ve got to kind of put my finger on it and kind of figure out,

407
00:21:14,970 –> 00:21:15,380
you know,

408
00:21:15,380 –> 00:21:16,280
what triggered this,

409
00:21:16,280 –> 00:21:21,400
what got me upset and then I wouldn’t be storming over to you and saying,

410
00:21:21,410 –> 00:21:22,900
oh my goodness brian,

411
00:21:22,910 –> 00:21:23,410
you know,

412
00:21:23,410 –> 00:21:25,040
you really messed this up.

413
00:21:25,040 –> 00:21:29,770
I I’ve got to kind of take a step back and say goodness what upset me and then kind of share with you,

414
00:21:29,780 –> 00:21:30,310
hey,

415
00:21:30,310 –> 00:21:32,490
this really up upset me and this is problematic,

416
00:21:32,500 –> 00:21:36,530
but then you shouldn’t be snapping back at me that I shouldn’t be upset,

417
00:21:36,540 –> 00:21:44,990
You should be listening at that point in time to to just figure out at that point in time what’s converging is my expectations that weren’t met.

418
00:21:45,000 –> 00:21:51,400
And then we’re trying to talk about it and you might then have some expectations that were unmet expectations.

419
00:21:51,400 –> 00:21:52,680
I like to think of expectations,

420
00:21:52,680 –> 00:21:53,340
like your big toe,

421
00:21:53,340 –> 00:21:54,870
now go with me on this all right,

422
00:21:54,880 –> 00:21:56,890
so like your big toe,

423
00:21:57,140 –> 00:21:58,840
you never really think about your big toe,

424
00:21:58,840 –> 00:21:59,540
it’s just there,

425
00:21:59,540 –> 00:22:04,120
It does its job and it’s really good at doing its job until you stub your big toe,

426
00:22:04,130 –> 00:22:07,910
then the only thing you can think about is your big toe because it hurts,

427
00:22:08,170 –> 00:22:08,580
you know,

428
00:22:08,580 –> 00:22:10,090
and it no longer does the job.

429
00:22:10,100 –> 00:22:10,810
So expectations,

430
00:22:10,810 –> 00:22:12,490
I mean I don’t think about them,

431
00:22:12,490 –> 00:22:18,140
they’re just there until it gets stepped on and then all of a sudden that hurts a lot.

432
00:22:18,150 –> 00:22:21,250
And so we got absolutely got to identify the expectation.

433
00:22:21,260 –> 00:22:21,920
Um,

434
00:22:21,930 –> 00:22:26,370
but I would propose that before we even talk to each other about it,

435
00:22:26,380 –> 00:22:28,520
we should figure out why it’s been unmet.

436
00:22:28,530 –> 00:22:29,300
Okay.

437
00:22:29,300 –> 00:22:33,030
So we would then be kind of figuring out why it was unmet,

438
00:22:33,030 –> 00:22:34,280
what didn’t happen?

439
00:22:34,280 –> 00:22:34,730
Right.

440
00:22:34,740 –> 00:22:35,430
Exactly.

441
00:22:35,430 –> 00:22:35,930
I mean,

442
00:22:35,940 –> 00:22:40,820
is this an invoiced unshared or unreasonable expectation?

443
00:22:40,820 –> 00:22:47,710
I think that’s important because if it’s just something that this could be something that I know we,

444
00:22:47,710 –> 00:22:50,690
we share because we’ve talked about things before.

445
00:22:50,700 –> 00:22:56,380
So I know this value of making sure that something is happening in the home,

446
00:22:56,390 –> 00:22:58,400
we share the value on this,

447
00:22:58,410 –> 00:23:00,580
but we didn’t talk about who was going to do this,

448
00:23:00,590 –> 00:23:02,340
this has happened before,

449
00:23:02,340 –> 00:23:02,530
right?

450
00:23:02,530 –> 00:23:02,690
Like,

451
00:23:02,690 –> 00:23:02,920
okay,

452
00:23:02,920 –> 00:23:04,100
who’s going to pick up the kids,

453
00:23:04,100 –> 00:23:04,830
who’s gonna,

454
00:23:04,840 –> 00:23:05,330
you know,

455
00:23:05,340 –> 00:23:07,110
if I thought you were,

456
00:23:07,110 –> 00:23:07,320
No,

457
00:23:07,320 –> 00:23:08,180
I thought you were,

458
00:23:08,190 –> 00:23:13,110
it wasn’t that it was an unshared expectation that things should be done,

459
00:23:13,110 –> 00:23:15,940
but it was unavoidable and that we didn’t know and said,

460
00:23:15,940 –> 00:23:16,250
hey,

461
00:23:16,260 –> 00:23:17,260
I got this or hey,

462
00:23:17,260 –> 00:23:18,220
can you take care of it.

463
00:23:18,230 –> 00:23:22,750
So before we can even really go to each other and figure and discuss,

464
00:23:22,760 –> 00:23:23,320
um,

465
00:23:23,330 –> 00:23:27,690
the expectation that wasn’t that we got to know why because it may be,

466
00:23:27,700 –> 00:23:45,240
I’ve got to come to you and apologize to you for being frustrated at you because you didn’t do what I didn’t tell you that I wanted you to do and it just seems like that spouse would have just worked themselves into a tip either just for and the other spouse would have just had no clue.

467
00:23:45,240 –> 00:23:50,430
No idea that there was any kind of an issue at all just because they didn’t know,

468
00:23:50,430 –> 00:23:53,230
they didn’t know what they didn’t know exactly exactly.

469
00:23:53,230 –> 00:23:58,910
And so I think once you’ve identified the expectation determined why it was unmet,

470
00:23:58,920 –> 00:24:03,600
then that’s when we discussed the expectation with you and this is how we do it all the time between us,

471
00:24:03,600 –> 00:24:03,870
right?

472
00:24:03,870 –> 00:24:04,200
It’s like,

473
00:24:04,200 –> 00:24:04,720
okay,

474
00:24:05,190 –> 00:24:08,710
now we’ve got to discuss this because if we don’t discuss it,

475
00:24:08,720 –> 00:24:14,270
then we’re just setting ourselves up to be hurt or frustrated or angry all over again.

476
00:24:14,830 –> 00:24:15,680
And so yeah,

477
00:24:15,690 –> 00:24:16,710
so identify it,

478
00:24:16,720 –> 00:24:24,080
determine why it was unmet and then discuss the expectation if you didn’t get a chance to listen to our first podcast on conflict resolution,

479
00:24:24,080 –> 00:24:33,910
take a listen to that because we talk about how to have these conversations because oftentimes these are going to be conflict and conflict when handled in a healthy way is very good.

480
00:24:34,300 –> 00:24:39,200
And so we have to discuss these and then together decide how we’ll move forward.

481
00:24:39,210 –> 00:24:44,240
I think that that’s an important thing and I what’s unfortunate I had heard from a client at one juncture.

482
00:24:44,250 –> 00:24:44,920
Well,

483
00:24:44,930 –> 00:24:45,410
you know,

484
00:24:45,410 –> 00:24:47,400
I just don’t have any expectations.

485
00:24:47,400 –> 00:24:48,730
So I won’t be disappointed,

486
00:24:48,730 –> 00:24:53,880
But even then she’s going to have some expectations nevertheless,

487
00:24:53,890 –> 00:24:57,730
um even if she’s kind of setting the bar low there.

488
00:24:57,730 –> 00:25:10,060
So um dealing with these un expectation is is a very important thing to do so that you can make sure that this doesn’t become a problem for your marriage.

489
00:25:10,070 –> 00:25:23,770
Something that brian and I looked at when we were writing our book was that passage from Song of Solomon that talks about catch the little foxes who are ruining the vineyard back in Biblical times.

490
00:25:23,780 –> 00:25:39,440
Certainly the Israelite people were viewing them as pests and it’s going to be a lot easier to get this little baby pest out of there versus they grow into these full blown huge animal foxes to to weed those out.

491
00:25:39,450 –> 00:25:41,040
Deal with the problems early.

492
00:25:41,040 –> 00:25:41,750
That’s huge.

493
00:25:41,750 –> 00:25:42,240
And that’s I mean,

494
00:25:42,240 –> 00:25:45,230
that’s why I put that in the forward of the book because it gets,

495
00:25:45,240 –> 00:25:46,010
it gets dicey.

496
00:25:46,010 –> 00:25:48,510
Those things those little foxes eat and eat meat,

497
00:25:48,520 –> 00:25:50,290
they get big and this idea of,

498
00:25:50,290 –> 00:25:50,440
oh,

499
00:25:50,440 –> 00:25:52,150
I just have no expectations.

500
00:25:52,160 –> 00:25:54,300
Life doesn’t work that way.

501
00:25:54,360 –> 00:25:54,750
Truth.

502
00:25:54,760 –> 00:25:56,370
I think that’s very true.

503
00:25:56,370 –> 00:26:00,270
So with the the the un expectations that you have,

504
00:26:00,280 –> 00:26:00,490
you know,

505
00:26:00,490 –> 00:26:00,770
what are,

506
00:26:00,770 –> 00:26:01,640
what are they?

507
00:26:01,650 –> 00:26:03,590
How does that work for you?

508
00:26:03,600 –> 00:26:20,160
And then realized to the expectations are often going to be normal and healthy and your unmet expectations are very often going to be those that are un voiced because they’re not communicated their unshared because our presumed norms are going to be different.

509
00:26:20,160 –> 00:26:34,080
They come out of sometimes they’re going to be very unreasonable to but it’s important to to deal with those un expectations and and determine how you’re going to go forward and go ahead and identify that expectation.

510
00:26:34,090 –> 00:26:36,230
Figure out why it was unmet.

511
00:26:36,240 –> 00:26:47,740
Then discuss that expectation with your spouse and then determine how you’re going to move forward and in handling that issue and and hopefully be able to minimize that kind of conflict on a going forward basis.

512
00:26:48,510 –> 00:26:51,520
We have another opportunity for you to help your marriage thrive.

513
00:26:51,530 –> 00:26:56,450
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514
00:26:56,490 –> 00:27:02,740
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515
00:27:02,750 –> 00:27:05,920
We’ll talk about enhancing communication skills,

516
00:27:05,930 –> 00:27:08,800
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517
00:27:08,960 –> 00:27:13,160
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518
00:27:13,300 –> 00:27:16,490
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519
00:27:16,490 –> 00:27:19,540
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520
00:27:19,540 –> 00:27:21,960
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521
00:27:21,970 –> 00:27:24,200
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522
00:27:24,200 –> 00:27:25,640
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1
00:00:00,140 –> 00:00:03,480
missions off the couch and stuff trying to find the stupid little thing because yeah,

2
00:00:03,490 –> 00:00:06,050
it’s just where’s the remote control?

3
00:00:06,060 –> 00:00:07,490
Oh yeah.

4
00:00:07,500 –> 00:00:12,470
And why is it always how does the remote control get under the couch in the first place?

5
00:00:12,480 –> 00:00:13,440
No idea.

6
00:00:13,440 –> 00:00:16,470
It’s like we got a duct tape that thing to a table or something.

7
00:00:16,480 –> 00:00:17,130
Yeah,

8
00:00:17,140 –> 00:00:19,370
I think that’s probably when I get the angry.

9
00:00:19,370 –> 00:00:19,710
Yes.

10
00:00:19,720 –> 00:00:21,100
It seems like some of it,

11
00:00:21,110 –> 00:00:24,540
it’s that anger is always that secondary emotion,

12
00:00:24,540 –> 00:00:24,840
right?

13
00:00:24,840 –> 00:00:26,080
It’s like you start off,

14
00:00:26,080 –> 00:00:30,680
you’ve got the anxiety and then the anxiety leads to the anger.

15
00:00:30,690 –> 00:00:36,490
You may be one choice away from a thriving marriage.

16
00:00:36,500 –> 00:00:40,920
Welcome to the operation driving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer harman.

17
00:00:40,930 –> 00:00:41,230
Yeah.

18
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Hey sweetheart,

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we’re back in the studio for another recording of the podcast.

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How you feeling about things.

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Hey doing great over here.

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So thanks for listening in friends and today.

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What we’re going to be doing is talking about how we can manage anger and not that anyone ever has problems with anger.

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No,

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never,

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never a problem in any kind of a relationship,

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let alone a marriage.

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You know,

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I know some families were,

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unfortunately it’s characterization of the family or the marriage is anger and that causes the anger and a lot of baggage that then comes from the anger.

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So certainly got to make sure that’s handled inappropriate kind of ways.

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Yeah,

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It’s crazy,

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right?

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People have different attitudes about anger and stuff but it’s almost cliche that you’ve got the mad parent,

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right?

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We love watching superhero shows and at least I do.

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And jen watches them with me,

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it’s all good,

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it’s almost cliche,

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you’ve got the angry parent all the time,

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right?

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It’s just,

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it seems like people expect someone in a marriage to always be angry and that’s a problem because these are the fictitious tv shows,

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but I think that that’s pouring over just into our collective kind of psyche,

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just as to some of our expectations of how things should be,

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but I think God has a lot better for us than having one person in the marriage,

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he’s always angry or both,

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you know,

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we need to be following God and live the way he wants us to live and it’s certainly not living into anger,

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right?

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People will try to excuse it,

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right,

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it’s like,

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well jesus got mad writer singer,

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there’s a,

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there’s a meme that’s been going around for a while that says,

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hey,

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um you know,

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the whole,

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what would jesus do or be like jesus remember that turning over tables and chasing people out of the building with a whip is within the realm of possibility,

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it’s like,

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okay,

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yeah,

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but that’s so out of context because jesus had a specific reason and this idea of,

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oh I’m just going to be angry and just gotta put up with my anger,

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that that’s scary,

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I mean,

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I think really,

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especially in families,

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like with kids,

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it’s like if mom or dad’s always mad,

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it’s just,

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it’s kind of scary to always be dealing with anger Yeah,

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it’s definitely an environment that would produce a lot of anxiety there and uh,

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you know,

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again,

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jesus would be the embodiment of what the perfect Godly anger would be like,

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I think that even when he was turning over tables in the temple that was under control,

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but you know,

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brian,

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what are some things that would make you angry?

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So we’re going to go there episode two and we’re already going,

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oh,

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I’m in trouble now.

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I think this is an obvious one obviously.

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Well for you because you watched me deal with it so much,

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I get so stressed.

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So first of all,

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for the listeners,

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I’m an army brat,

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grew up,

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my dad was in the army 21 years and timeliness has been a thing my whole life.

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It’s like,

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no,

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you are not late to anything.

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I like being on time.

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I didn’t say you didn’t like being on time,

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somebody who’s running late,

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but you don’t experience anxiety for when we’re running late.

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So that wasn’t,

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that’s true.

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That is true.

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That was not a slam.

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I get really anxious about timeliness and when it’s time to go and something that just makes me so angry is when we have to take something with us or we can’t find something that bothers me in general,

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the kids are coming up to me saying,

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I can’t find my Pokemon card or my case for my glasses,

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whatever it is,

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it’s like if you would just put things away where they belong then we’re going there brian,

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we would not be searching all over the house for this thing.

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But in fairness in fairness I get just as mad at me as I do it.

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Anyone else about this?

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Right.

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So I think you get madder at you when you can’t find something.

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It’s just I mean everyone is just dad brian is on the warpath here turning pulling cushions off the couch and stuff trying to find the stupid little thing because yeah,

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it’s just where’s the remote control?

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Oh yeah.

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And why is it always how does the remote control get under the couch in the first place?

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No idea.

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It’s like we got duct tape,

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that thing to a table or something.

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Yeah,

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I think that’s probably at least at home.

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That’s probably when I get the angriest I think.

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And it seems like some of it it’s that the anger is always that secondary emotion,

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right?

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It’s like you start off you’ve got the anxiety and then the anxiety leads to the anger.

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That or we’re going to talk about this later podcast.

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Right,

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expectations.

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I expect.

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I told you the remote control always goes on this table.

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a remote control on that table.

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But that’s where the remote control expectations.

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Right?

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The cat moved it.

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Sure,

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sure.

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Yeah,

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the cat moved it because she was trying to turn on the aquarium to watch her cat tv something like that in that sense.

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I’ve got to be honest though,

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my emotion gets the better of me sometimes and I’ve got to get things under control.

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But anger is not always bad.

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Oh no,

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I would say that anger is certainly not the bad thing about it because the natural emotion,

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everybody is going to experience some anger and a lot of that,

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it’s coming from something else.

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Again,

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it’s triggered by some anxiety or some fear.

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And anger is that response and kind of manifestation to kind of help protect from that initial emotion that’s there.

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So what isn’t bad is the anger in and of itself?

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But if it’s mishandled,

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that’s when the anger is going to be a bad thing.

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Yeah.

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Even even God,

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when we look at scripture,

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God got angry.

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I mean look at the profits.

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My God,

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she got really angry at Israel for their idolatry.

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Sure he called it,

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I mean he called their idolatry adultery.

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You know,

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at one point he even says,

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look I’m divorcing you.

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I mean God divorced Israel because he was so mad at them because they were doing the wrong thing.

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So feeling anger and when things ought not be so or we think about different situations in the world,

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when we watched the news,

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we see things that ought not be so,

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it’s okay to feel angry.

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And I mean going back to the illustration of the beginning,

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right jesus is chasing people out of the temple because the money changers and all those people in the temple,

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they were keeping people from God.

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They were trying to force people away from from God and not experience the fullness of the experience of God and it ought not be so.

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And jesus,

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yeah,

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I’m angry about this because it ought not be so.

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But also I would say to when you look at God in the old testament,

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sometimes people will kind of come up with this misnomer of God in the old testament is angry,

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but God and the new testament is loving and that’s not true because God has always been loving and I love how he describes himself in exodus as being so loving and gracious and slow to anger and that’s something that we should be emulating,

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because if anybody can do the angry scorched the earth,

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it is literally God,

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but that’s not who he is,

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that’s not in his character and not that he can’t act and punish for these sins as he has certainly done in the old testament as you were talking about in Isaiah and Jeremiah,

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but he’s always here,

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he always loves us and he always provides that redemption and that’s particularly the case by sending jesus to us.

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I think that’s a good point,

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you’re right,

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because I mean,

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it’s easy to go off about the angry God and that’s even a cliche,

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right?

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The people have tried to claim there’s two different gods and the bible old testament,

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New testament,

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this is about marriage,

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not about theology.

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So I’ve got to watch myself.

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But yeah,

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you’re right.

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And that’s important to bring out because also when you look at the profits,

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you don’t just see God’s anger.

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You see God’s sadness and feeling of betrayal.

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But it’s also,

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you know,

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his love,

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him wanting to reach out and bring back people to what’s going on.

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Let’s talk about managing our anger though,

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because I think that there’s a passage in Ephesians that really is important for this,

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but I think it’s something that people don’t always understand completely.

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I’m going to read this passage then what we’ll talk about a little bit Ephesians,

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um Chapter four,

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starting in verse 26,

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it says be angry and do not sin.

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Do not let the sun go down on the cause of your anger.

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Do not give the devil an opportunity.

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Some translations don’t say the cause of your anger just says don’t let the sun go down on your anger.

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That’s an interesting passage because it presumes you will get angry,

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right?

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We all do.

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Yeah,

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we’re going to get angry.

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So it’s presumed that you can get in this passage by the way,

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it’s not just talking about anger.

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That’s one of the things I think is really important too because we’re talking about managing anger and marriage.

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But if you took this literally,

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like some people say this literally is how you have to manage anger in your marriage.

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And so you can’t go to bed,

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you can’t go to sleep until you resolve this issue because you’re giving a devil’s foothold.

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Well,

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if that’s true,

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then this is not talking about marriage is not a marriage passage in Ephesians,

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that would mean any time you were angry with anyone over anything,

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it’s like you’ve got to pick up a call phones.

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Like you can’t go to sleep until we resolve this issue,

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right?

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And that wouldn’t be the case.

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It seems like you were saying that again,

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it’s kind of the don’t let the sun go down on your anger.

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That’s not something that’s unique to the apostle paul,

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is that right?

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Yeah,

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it was an idiom.

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So,

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and that’s the way it should be taken.

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It’s more proverbial paul wasn’t giving a command from God thou shalt not.

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He’s talking about good principles and good ideas that,

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hey,

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don’t let your anger keep going.

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And we’ve seen this,

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right?

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When people don’t resolve their anger,

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their upset at something.

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Um we’ve seen it’s just,

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it gets worse and worse and it just builds and it festers.

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So it seems like a lot of it,

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it’s just saying I like to use the term don’t marinate in your anger.

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Um you know,

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you don’t want that to just get soaked up into you because if you were talking about that,

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you’re marinating a piece of chicken that you’re going to cook for dinner.

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It takes on that marinade and you just can’t get it off.

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But the good news is with anger,

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christ can supernaturally remove that from us.

262
00:10:39,330 –> 00:10:47,030
But let’s not do the damage to ourselves by festering and marinating in that to try to give that the devil a foothold.

263
00:10:47,030 –> 00:10:52,460
Because I’d say two if I get mad at you and I’m angry with you at nine o’clock in the morning,

264
00:10:52,460 –> 00:10:53,370
I can’t just say,

265
00:10:53,380 –> 00:10:53,720
oh,

266
00:10:53,720 –> 00:11:00,620
I’m going to revel in this and I’m gonna be really mad at you and then I’ll try to resolve things a half hour before the sun goes down.

267
00:11:00,620 –> 00:11:02,380
That that’s not what this is saying.

268
00:11:02,380 –> 00:11:04,540
It’s saying don’t let this fester,

269
00:11:04,540 –> 00:11:05,530
that’s not gonna work very well.

270
00:11:05,540 –> 00:11:15,170
And I also that point about not giving the devil a foothold because you really do give the anger power over you when you let it fester,

271
00:11:15,170 –> 00:11:15,500
right?

272
00:11:15,510 –> 00:11:17,410
When you just marinated it.

273
00:11:17,410 –> 00:11:18,190
As you were saying,

274
00:11:18,200 –> 00:11:21,620
you give that anger power and control over you.

275
00:11:21,630 –> 00:11:23,020
When our kids were little,

276
00:11:23,030 –> 00:11:26,000
you’re teaching toddlers not to have temper tantrums,

277
00:11:26,000 –> 00:11:31,260
teaching them how to deal with their emotions and their feeling things and they just don’t know what they’re feeling or how to deal with it.

278
00:11:31,440 –> 00:11:34,620
We would always tell them when they were getting angry and stuff like,

279
00:11:34,620 –> 00:11:34,900
hey,

280
00:11:34,910 –> 00:11:36,950
you’ve got to control your emotions,

281
00:11:36,950 –> 00:11:38,540
don’t let your emotions control,

282
00:11:38,540 –> 00:11:39,490
You know,

283
00:11:39,490 –> 00:11:44,120
and we never want to say it’s not okay to feel emotions because that’s repression,

284
00:11:44,120 –> 00:11:45,830
that’s something that’s unhealthy and wrong.

285
00:11:45,840 –> 00:11:48,710
Your emotions aren’t in and of themselves bad.

286
00:11:48,720 –> 00:11:55,660
They’re a response that you’re having to a situation but we can’t let those emotions control us.

287
00:11:55,740 –> 00:11:56,920
Oh absolutely.

288
00:11:56,920 –> 00:11:58,830
I think it’s wise to separate.

289
00:11:58,840 –> 00:12:10,300
I am so angry at this entire person versus I’m angry or I’m frustrated about a situation that we’re trying to resolve because we always talk about the idea of team marriage.

290
00:12:10,300 –> 00:12:11,560
We’re on the same team,

291
00:12:11,560 –> 00:12:13,190
we win or we lose together.

292
00:12:13,190 –> 00:12:17,780
There’s no winner or loser between the two of us because if one is saying I’m the winner,

293
00:12:17,780 –> 00:12:18,630
the other one’s a loser,

294
00:12:18,630 –> 00:12:19,000
guess what?

295
00:12:19,000 –> 00:12:20,460
You both lost the marriage?

296
00:12:20,460 –> 00:12:21,100
Just both of us.

297
00:12:21,110 –> 00:12:24,160
But I think even that I even like the language better.

298
00:12:24,160 –> 00:12:25,520
I’m feeling angry.

299
00:12:25,530 –> 00:12:30,220
Feeling anger in the mantis character in Garden of the Galaxy Volume two,

300
00:12:30,220 –> 00:12:32,380
she talks about how feelings she controls emotions.

301
00:12:32,380 –> 00:12:32,630
Anyway,

302
00:12:32,630 –> 00:12:32,930
okay,

303
00:12:32,930 –> 00:12:34,710
I geek out on the bible and on marvel.

304
00:12:34,720 –> 00:12:35,120
You know,

305
00:12:35,120 –> 00:12:39,430
you feeling anger because when you say I am angry now,

306
00:12:39,430 –> 00:12:42,940
you’re even using language of identity and it’s not I’m not anger.

307
00:12:42,940 –> 00:12:43,900
I am not my anger.

308
00:12:43,910 –> 00:12:47,760
I feel my anger and that’s something that is part of me,

309
00:12:47,760 –> 00:12:51,520
but just as much as my finger is part of my finger is not me.

310
00:12:51,530 –> 00:12:55,180
But it’s an aspect of me and my anger if I should lose my anger,

311
00:12:55,180 –> 00:12:59,270
I don’t become less of me and I think that sometimes people who fester in their anger,

312
00:12:59,280 –> 00:13:04,560
they become so identified with their anger that they can’t separate what they’re feeling from who they are,

313
00:13:04,570 –> 00:13:04,930
right?

314
00:13:04,930 –> 00:13:12,360
And I think anger being an emotion and feeling that for very specific reasons as opposed to anger becoming part of your character.

315
00:13:12,370 –> 00:13:14,580
And that’s something that you certainly don’t want.

316
00:13:14,580 –> 00:13:17,440
You don’t want to be characterized by anger.

317
00:13:17,450 –> 00:13:20,570
You don’t want anger to be a part of what your character is.

318
00:13:20,570 –> 00:13:21,940
But I do think sometimes where it’s like,

319
00:13:21,940 –> 00:13:22,210
hey,

320
00:13:22,210 –> 00:13:24,940
I’m angry about this particular situation,

321
00:13:24,950 –> 00:13:28,900
it’s sometimes it is wise to say we’re going to table this discussion,

322
00:13:28,910 –> 00:13:31,840
we’re going to enjoy each other’s company even.

323
00:13:31,850 –> 00:13:39,570
And we’re just going to sleep on this and then we’re going to wake up in the morning and we’re going to set aside time where we can really tash this out and resolve this matter.

324
00:13:39,570 –> 00:13:42,140
But you need to make sure you’re being proactive about that,

325
00:13:42,150 –> 00:13:43,520
especially in a marriage.

326
00:13:43,530 –> 00:13:43,940
Absolutely.

327
00:13:43,940 –> 00:13:47,120
And I think that a big part of that is because of the physiology of anger,

328
00:13:47,130 –> 00:13:49,580
because of what our bodies do.

329
00:13:49,580 –> 00:13:55,070
And it’s pretty consistent for most people that mean the details may be different.

330
00:13:55,070 –> 00:13:57,440
But this is all starts in our limbic system.

331
00:13:57,440 –> 00:13:59,210
It’s all a response,

332
00:13:59,220 –> 00:14:02,560
a chemical response in our brain to a stimulus,

333
00:14:02,570 –> 00:14:03,420
expectations,

334
00:14:03,420 –> 00:14:05,240
Something happened and responding.

335
00:14:05,240 –> 00:14:10,260
And anger is often because of that fight or flight reaction is being triggered.

336
00:14:10,440 –> 00:14:15,460
And so now our body is being flooded with the chemicals that prepare us for action.

337
00:14:15,470 –> 00:14:19,680
So our capillary swell our blood starts pumping and I don’t know about you,

338
00:14:19,680 –> 00:14:21,920
but I can feel it when I’m really,

339
00:14:21,920 –> 00:14:22,780
really angry.

340
00:14:22,780 –> 00:14:26,760
I can feel my heart start racing,

341
00:14:26,760 –> 00:14:28,640
feel the vein popping in your forehead.

342
00:14:28,650 –> 00:14:28,760
Well,

343
00:14:28,760 –> 00:14:28,870
no,

344
00:14:28,870 –> 00:14:29,470
you see that?

345
00:14:29,470 –> 00:14:30,140
But I don’t feel that.

346
00:14:30,140 –> 00:14:30,700
Okay.

347
00:14:30,710 –> 00:14:33,270
I’m glad you don’t feel that because it looks painful.

348
00:14:33,280 –> 00:14:34,200
It must be scared.

349
00:14:34,210 –> 00:14:36,700
But I can feel my blood pressure rising.

350
00:14:36,700 –> 00:14:41,540
I can feel myself getting angry and a couple of things that I notice.

351
00:14:41,550 –> 00:14:42,670
I grit my teeth,

352
00:14:42,680 –> 00:14:45,780
I start gritting my teeth and I start doubling up my fists.

353
00:14:45,790 –> 00:14:50,040
It’s like my body is responding to that I’m ready to fight.

354
00:14:50,050 –> 00:14:50,280
You know,

355
00:14:50,280 –> 00:14:54,760
even though obviously I’m not going to fight because I can’t find my car keys who are going to fight.

356
00:14:54,770 –> 00:14:59,110
It’s gonna be that seeing like that jim Carrey movie where he beats himself up in the bathroom.

357
00:14:59,120 –> 00:15:00,500
That’s not workable.

358
00:15:00,500 –> 00:15:03,170
And hit brian checking your pants downstairs,

359
00:15:03,170 –> 00:15:03,500
right?

360
00:15:03,500 –> 00:15:05,460
It’s probably probably where your keys are.

361
00:15:05,540 –> 00:15:09,590
Part of that is dealing with the physiology of anger.

362
00:15:09,590 –> 00:15:10,570
So you were talking about,

363
00:15:10,570 –> 00:15:10,690
hey,

364
00:15:10,690 –> 00:15:12,570
sometimes you need to take a break.

365
00:15:12,580 –> 00:15:25,220
You need to take a break just to work out those chemicals workout that adrenaline gets your heart rate down because another thing that happens just physiologically tunnel vision will start happening and you just,

366
00:15:25,220 –> 00:15:27,210
you can’t see what’s going on around you.

367
00:15:27,210 –> 00:15:28,200
You just you get.

368
00:15:28,200 –> 00:15:33,980
So target fixated on I’m angry and this is what’s going on that you can’t deal with real life.

369
00:15:33,990 –> 00:15:40,910
And so you may even not be angry at the thing that you should be angry about because you’re so focused on this and then you’re lashing out.

370
00:15:40,920 –> 00:15:46,020
So I tell the story in the book we hadn’t been in the house we live in now for very long.

371
00:15:46,020 –> 00:15:46,710
We just moved there.

372
00:15:46,710 –> 00:15:52,750
Jonathan was still a baby and I don’t remember what we were arguing about but I was so angry.

373
00:15:52,750 –> 00:15:57,630
We we both work and I was so angry and you went downstairs it’s like okay we need to take a break.

374
00:15:57,640 –> 00:15:58,600
This just isn’t working.

375
00:15:58,600 –> 00:15:59,370
So you went downstairs.

376
00:15:59,370 –> 00:16:00,260
I don’t even know what you’re doing.

377
00:16:00,260 –> 00:16:06,960
But I stayed upstairs and I had so much angry energy that I just started cleaning the house,

378
00:16:07,040 –> 00:16:16,740
I did the dishes and I was still angry so I started cleaning the kitchen and by the end of the night before we actually sat down and talked I had cleaned the entire first floor of our house,

379
00:16:16,750 –> 00:16:17,430
the kitchen,

380
00:16:17,430 –> 00:16:18,890
I had mopped all the floors,

381
00:16:18,890 –> 00:16:22,080
I had vacuumed the house was probably the cleanest it’s ever been.

382
00:16:22,090 –> 00:16:22,920
Thank you babe.

383
00:16:22,920 –> 00:16:25,390
And just so you know whoever is listening to this,

384
00:16:25,390 –> 00:16:25,950
my friends,

385
00:16:25,950 –> 00:16:29,400
I don’t incite brian to anger just because I want to get the house clean.

386
00:16:29,400 –> 00:16:34,320
So but I literally have mad cleaning skills just literally there you go.

387
00:16:34,330 –> 00:16:42,340
Oh but yeah the physiology of anger is something that we have to address and we have to deal with.

388
00:16:42,350 –> 00:16:47,330
So walking away is an important part of managing anger.

389
00:16:47,340 –> 00:16:49,720
What are some things you do when you’re feeling angry?

390
00:16:49,720 –> 00:16:51,760
How do you manage your anger?

391
00:16:51,770 –> 00:16:52,210
You know,

392
00:16:52,210 –> 00:16:55,260
I like the term unplugging versus walking away.

393
00:16:55,270 –> 00:16:55,550
Okay.

394
00:16:55,550 –> 00:16:55,740
Yeah,

395
00:16:55,740 –> 00:16:56,160
I like that.

396
00:16:56,170 –> 00:16:56,470
The,

397
00:16:56,480 –> 00:17:02,130
the idea of that is that you’re separating yourself from the conflict for a time.

398
00:17:02,130 –> 00:17:07,330
It’s not like I’m throwing up my hands and I’m walking out on or walking away from my spouse.

399
00:17:07,330 –> 00:17:10,370
Like the relationship is an important instead of just saying,

400
00:17:10,370 –> 00:17:10,590
hey,

401
00:17:10,590 –> 00:17:17,270
I’m going to just take some time and you’re not going to be mad at me while I’m unplugged because who am I going to be talking to?

402
00:17:17,270 –> 00:17:18,620
I’m not going to be calling up my,

403
00:17:18,630 –> 00:17:22,220
my girlfriends to complain about you or family members to complain.

404
00:17:22,230 –> 00:17:23,850
I’m going to be talking to jesus.

405
00:17:23,850 –> 00:17:25,030
And instead of saying,

406
00:17:25,030 –> 00:17:26,530
what’s wrong with brian?

407
00:17:26,540 –> 00:17:28,450
Hopefully I’m having the wherewithal to say,

408
00:17:28,450 –> 00:17:33,030
I want to look at myself and see how am I contributing to this conflict and what can we do to,

409
00:17:33,030 –> 00:17:34,360
to work things out?

410
00:17:34,360 –> 00:17:39,380
Because sometimes when you’re dealing with these kinds of conflicts where you’re getting really angry,

411
00:17:39,390 –> 00:17:40,900
the compromise,

412
00:17:40,910 –> 00:17:46,300
it’s never a good idea if you want to wear the brown shoes and I want to wear the black shoes,

413
00:17:46,310 –> 00:17:52,890
you just get one black shoe and one brown shoe and that’s what you’re going to be then wearing that just does it works.

414
00:17:52,890 –> 00:17:54,770
But the kids are always doing mismatched socks.

415
00:17:54,770 –> 00:17:55,740
You can’t do that with shoes.

416
00:17:55,740 –> 00:17:56,210
Well,

417
00:17:56,210 –> 00:17:57,400
I guess you can’t do that with shoes,

418
00:17:57,400 –> 00:17:58,930
but you can’t do that with socks.

419
00:17:58,940 –> 00:18:00,730
But in any event,

420
00:18:00,730 –> 00:18:06,670
sometimes you do have to come to a resolution where it’s not a one for one compromise for that.

421
00:18:06,670 –> 00:18:16,180
But I always like to have the attitude of how am I honoring God and what is going to then move the family forward in the best possible way in this conflict?

422
00:18:16,190 –> 00:18:17,570
I think the other thing too,

423
00:18:17,580 –> 00:18:21,000
when dealing with anger is it requires a lot of introspection.

424
00:18:21,000 –> 00:18:22,540
That requires a lot of prayer,

425
00:18:22,550 –> 00:18:23,950
but why am I angry?

426
00:18:23,960 –> 00:18:28,270
What is it that makes this so important?

427
00:18:28,340 –> 00:18:32,660
The answer to that is huge for who you are and that’s part of growing in holiness.

428
00:18:32,740 –> 00:18:35,070
AM I even right to be angry about this?

429
00:18:35,080 –> 00:18:37,200
Um so going back to my story at the beginning,

430
00:18:37,200 –> 00:18:37,350
right?

431
00:18:37,350 –> 00:18:37,840
About I mean,

432
00:18:37,840 –> 00:18:38,540
I can’t find things,

433
00:18:38,540 –> 00:18:41,520
especially when we’re trying to leave that’s not healthy.

434
00:18:41,530 –> 00:18:50,490
I know that I have anxiety about showing up late to things and I know that about myself better three hours early than one minute late.

435
00:18:50,490 –> 00:18:50,980
Right?

436
00:18:50,990 –> 00:18:51,360
Yes,

437
00:18:51,360 –> 00:18:52,190
absolutely.

438
00:18:52,920 –> 00:18:54,170
Oh my goodness.

439
00:18:54,180 –> 00:18:57,350
So what’s going to happen if I’m late,

440
00:18:57,360 –> 00:18:58,410
no one will die,

441
00:18:58,420 –> 00:18:59,060
No one will die.

442
00:18:59,070 –> 00:19:00,280
You’re not a surgeon.

443
00:19:00,280 –> 00:19:01,730
You’re not like a trauma surgeon?

444
00:19:01,740 –> 00:19:02,010
No.

445
00:19:02,010 –> 00:19:06,330
And really it comes down to fear of some sort of Reprisal?

446
00:19:06,330 –> 00:19:06,570
Right?

447
00:19:06,570 –> 00:19:09,480
It’s just this fear that I have that something bad is gonna happen.

448
00:19:09,490 –> 00:19:11,270
And that’s important when you’re dealing with anger to,

449
00:19:11,270 –> 00:19:13,280
we have to be able to unplug like you said.

450
00:19:13,280 –> 00:19:14,340
But we also have to,

451
00:19:14,340 –> 00:19:15,670
when we’re unplugging,

452
00:19:15,740 –> 00:19:18,140
we can’t unplug and just let it fester,

453
00:19:18,150 –> 00:19:18,510
right?

454
00:19:18,510 –> 00:19:24,930
We can unplug and make it worse and give the devil a foothold and give anger control of ourselves because oh my gosh.

455
00:19:24,940 –> 00:19:25,410
You know,

456
00:19:25,420 –> 00:19:30,790
if jen would just do this and this and this and then and I just replay this and rehash this,

457
00:19:30,800 –> 00:19:34,380
that’s not helpful at all.

458
00:19:34,390 –> 00:19:37,190
I need to really step back and why am I angry about this?

459
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:39,980
What is the root issue?

460
00:19:39,980 –> 00:19:45,530
And usually it has something to do with when we walk back and it’s something that I have a fear over.

461
00:19:45,530 –> 00:19:53,430
Are we not just me were afraid that the ultimate outcome is going to be something bad and this might be even some triggers for all of us,

462
00:19:53,440 –> 00:19:53,710
You know,

463
00:19:53,710 –> 00:19:59,080
did something happen when we were growing up or are these just kind of more preferences or predilections?

464
00:19:59,080 –> 00:20:02,820
But to just make sure you’re getting under control because like you had said,

465
00:20:02,830 –> 00:20:09,160
it’s like I’m getting angry because this particular issue is just so important and why is this so important?

466
00:20:09,170 –> 00:20:19,710
And then certainly the other spouse that seeing that is that issue just as important to the other spouse or is it not just kind of just trying to get more of an understanding together,

467
00:20:19,710 –> 00:20:23,110
and I think sometimes that can help diffuse the anger on both sides.

468
00:20:23,110 –> 00:20:24,950
It’s just like why is my spouse feeling this?

469
00:20:24,950 –> 00:20:27,050
And just try to talk it through and again,

470
00:20:27,050 –> 00:20:28,360
be honest about it,

471
00:20:28,440 –> 00:20:28,910
right,

472
00:20:28,920 –> 00:20:30,260
And that’s something to that,

473
00:20:30,260 –> 00:20:31,350
it’s important.

474
00:20:31,640 –> 00:20:36,370
Um We as individuals need to be able to manage our anger,

475
00:20:36,370 –> 00:20:38,360
but we as couples need to manage it to,

476
00:20:38,360 –> 00:20:38,730
right?

477
00:20:38,740 –> 00:20:44,710
It’s um if I know that this is something that’s key or important,

478
00:20:44,720 –> 00:20:47,670
then I need to be respectful of that too,

479
00:20:48,040 –> 00:20:49,750
because we talked a lot about,

480
00:20:49,750 –> 00:20:49,950
okay,

481
00:20:49,950 –> 00:20:50,590
this isn’t important,

482
00:20:50,590 –> 00:20:51,940
it’s not important in this podcast,

483
00:20:51,940 –> 00:20:54,550
but there are things that are really are important,

484
00:20:54,560 –> 00:20:55,380
and again,

485
00:20:55,390 –> 00:21:01,180
anger is not bad um life name,

486
00:21:01,190 –> 00:21:01,470
you know,

487
00:21:01,470 –> 00:21:01,970
things like that.

488
00:21:01,970 –> 00:21:13,510
If if I’m doing something that is going to ultimately have a significant negative impact on our health as a family,

489
00:21:13,510 –> 00:21:15,610
that doesn’t necessarily just mean physical health,

490
00:21:15,610 –> 00:21:23,070
but am I being irresponsible with how I’m taking care of our house or,

491
00:21:23,080 –> 00:21:23,540
you know,

492
00:21:23,540 –> 00:21:26,580
I’m not getting the oil changed in the car,

493
00:21:26,580 –> 00:21:26,840
okay?

494
00:21:26,840 –> 00:21:27,060
Mr.

495
00:21:27,060 –> 00:21:27,300
Election,

496
00:21:27,300 –> 00:21:27,730
that’s fine.

497
00:21:27,730 –> 00:21:34,930
But if that keeps going in the car breaks down and our daughter who terrifyingly is going to be getting ready to drive soon.

498
00:21:34,940 –> 00:21:36,570
That too terrifying.

499
00:21:36,580 –> 00:21:38,240
She’s a great driver,

500
00:21:38,250 –> 00:21:41,720
but being a dad and thinking about all the knuckleheads on the road,

501
00:21:41,730 –> 00:21:42,730
we learned very,

502
00:21:42,730 –> 00:21:44,870
very early on when she started driving.

503
00:21:44,880 –> 00:21:45,210
You know,

504
00:21:45,210 –> 00:21:46,860
just with us in the car that you know,

505
00:21:46,860 –> 00:21:49,390
that’s why Catholics keep rosaries in the car.

506
00:21:49,390 –> 00:21:49,880
But yes,

507
00:21:49,890 –> 00:21:50,440
yeah,

508
00:21:50,450 –> 00:21:51,910
just prayer,

509
00:21:51,910 –> 00:21:52,380
prayer,

510
00:21:52,380 –> 00:21:52,930
prayer,

511
00:21:52,930 –> 00:21:53,660
prayer manufacture.

512
00:21:53,660 –> 00:21:54,760
If you’re listening to this right now,

513
00:21:54,760 –> 00:21:55,860
pray for me,

514
00:21:56,040 –> 00:21:57,350
uh,

515
00:21:57,360 –> 00:21:59,820
we need prayers for all kinds of stuff there Bryant.

516
00:21:59,830 –> 00:22:06,390
But the point is if I’m not being responsible or the Children are being responsible with getting the oil change in the car,

517
00:22:06,390 –> 00:22:13,210
that’s a safety issue because if at some point that engine seizes when you’re doing 75 miles an hour on the freeway,

518
00:22:13,220 –> 00:22:16,500
that’s literally life or limb could be at jeopardy.

519
00:22:16,500 –> 00:22:27,680
But it’s also if we’re being foolish about finances and we’re putting our family in jeopardy and causing debt or taking things out of savings that probably need to,

520
00:22:27,690 –> 00:22:34,390
there are some things it’s okay to get angry about because the fear behind that is a real issue for the health of the family.

521
00:22:34,400 –> 00:22:39,680
But let’s also talk about just the idea of how far reaching anger can be because we’re talking about some,

522
00:22:39,680 –> 00:22:43,620
some anger that might be happening because something that happened in the family.

523
00:22:43,840 –> 00:22:44,620
But again,

524
00:22:44,620 –> 00:22:45,780
you can’t let that fester,

525
00:22:45,780 –> 00:22:51,410
you can’t marinate in that because I’ve even seen some things with families that I work with on,

526
00:22:51,410 –> 00:22:53,810
on the legal side of things where this,

527
00:22:53,820 –> 00:23:03,350
this adult woman was so angry about her sister stealing money from her mother and of course we’re going to be mad about something like that.

528
00:23:03,440 –> 00:23:05,410
But she let that anger so overtake her.

529
00:23:05,410 –> 00:23:10,100
It spilled over into her family life and her anger towards her sister spilled over into her.

530
00:23:10,100 –> 00:23:13,020
Then expressing anger being short tempered,

531
00:23:13,020 –> 00:23:16,800
being very prone to conflict then with her husband and kids.

532
00:23:16,800 –> 00:23:21,580
So we really need to make sure that that’s controlled anger isn’t too bad.

533
00:23:21,590 –> 00:23:23,850
But definitely it’s mishandled anger.

534
00:23:23,850 –> 00:23:26,470
And when we look at Ephesians with that advice,

535
00:23:26,480 –> 00:23:27,790
it needs to be dealt with quickly.

536
00:23:27,790 –> 00:23:33,340
Not necessarily in the moment because sometimes you need to unplug and deal with the physiology of it,

537
00:23:33,350 –> 00:23:34,170
dealing with our anger.

538
00:23:34,170 –> 00:23:38,370
We need to deal with the physiology but we need to make sure we’ve got control of our emotions,

539
00:23:38,370 –> 00:23:50,900
not our emotions controlling us and be aware of what is this thing that is causing her and make sure that we are dealing with our own issues and so that we could have healthy anger,

540
00:23:50,900 –> 00:23:52,150
not unhealthy anger,

541
00:23:52,160 –> 00:23:52,770
that’s it.

542
00:23:54,040 –> 00:23:57,010
We have another opportunity for you to help your marriage thrive.

543
00:23:57,020 –> 00:24:01,940
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544
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545
00:24:08,260 –> 00:24:11,410
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546
00:24:11,420 –> 00:24:14,260
conflict resolution and building intimacy in your marriage.

547
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551
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552
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553
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554
00:24:28,950 –> 00:24:29,690
operation,

555
00:24:29,690 –> 00:24:31,130
thriving marriage.com.

556
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:36,560
We look forward to meeting you in person.

1
00:00:00,640 –> 00:00:01,440
a lot of times .

2
00:00:01,440 –> 00:00:14,230
You’re just that one awkward conversation or difficult conversation away from having that thriving marriage conflict is really there to strengthen your relationship when it’s handled the right way .

3
00:00:14,240 –> 00:00:16,420
And it’s so funny too because people want that ,

4
00:00:16,420 –> 00:00:18,550
but they’re afraid of the outcome .

5
00:00:19,340 –> 00:00:22,430
You may be one choice away from a thriving marriage .

6
00:00:22,440 –> 00:00:23,730
Welcome to the operation ,

7
00:00:23,730 –> 00:00:26,460
thriving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer .

8
00:00:26,460 –> 00:00:28,980
Harvey sweetheart .

9
00:00:28,990 –> 00:00:29,740
How’s it going ?

10
00:00:29,740 –> 00:00:33,060
We’re in the studio for the first time for our first operation ,

11
00:00:33,060 –> 00:00:34,370
thriving marriage podcast .

12
00:00:34,370 –> 00:00:35,010
You ready for this ?

13
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Yeah ,

14
00:00:35,400 –> 00:00:36,700
this is an awesome kind of thing .

15
00:00:36,700 –> 00:00:38,040
So shout out to Todd ,

16
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our producer and so excited to be recording our first ever podcast and we’re here and we’re talking about conflict resolution .

17
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We’re starting this out and we’re doing we’re talking about conflict because that’s like one of the most common things in marriage .

18
00:00:50,940 –> 00:00:52,750
But when you think about being a lawyer ,

19
00:00:52,750 –> 00:00:53,830
you deal with conflict .

20
00:00:53,830 –> 00:00:55,490
That’s your job is resolving conflict .

21
00:00:55,490 –> 00:00:55,980
That’s it .

22
00:00:55,980 –> 00:00:57,450
At least we do our best to resolve .

23
00:00:57,450 –> 00:00:57,690
Right ?

24
00:00:57,700 –> 00:00:58,500
So ,

25
00:00:58,510 –> 00:01:02,620
but what are some of the common boy bad conflict resolution techniques ?

26
00:01:02,620 –> 00:01:06,990
You’ve seen her have a story about something that just went totally off the rails .

27
00:01:07,000 –> 00:01:07,830
Oh my gosh ,

28
00:01:07,830 –> 00:01:10,730
this was probably one of the craziest things .

29
00:01:10,730 –> 00:01:13,550
I had been about seven years in practice or so .

30
00:01:13,560 –> 00:01:24,360
And I was representing a gentleman on a divorce case and myself and this gentleman and my opposing counsel and the wife had just appeared before .

31
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The judge just told the judge on the record that my client had some vision impairment that was very significant in his right eye And then we go out into the hallway .

32
00:01:34,370 –> 00:01:53,670
The other attorney wasn’t happy with what the judge was ruling about his client because we did better that day and my client starts walking away after me and he accidentally bumps into this other attorney and legitimately did not see him because of his vision impairment .

33
00:01:53,680 –> 00:02:06,330
So this attorney gets mad and starts literally chasing him down the hallway and gets right up in his face and I’m talking like eight inches away from the guy’s face and I had the wherewithal .

34
00:02:06,330 –> 00:02:06,600
You know ,

35
00:02:06,600 –> 00:02:11,260
I’m a woman who’s five ft 10 to slip in between because it’s like ,

36
00:02:11,260 –> 00:02:11,530
hey ,

37
00:02:11,530 –> 00:02:13,450
are you going to take a swing at me .

38
00:02:13,540 –> 00:02:22,610
So that was a very bad idea in the judge’s court officer ran out in the hallway and gave this other attorney a good talking to .

39
00:02:22,610 –> 00:02:23,490
But these guys all ,

40
00:02:23,500 –> 00:02:24,180
hey ,

41
00:02:24,180 –> 00:02:26,910
okay by the flagpole after school .

42
00:02:26,910 –> 00:02:27,670
That’s it .

43
00:02:27,680 –> 00:02:28,940
Something like that .

44
00:02:28,940 –> 00:02:29,330
But you know ,

45
00:02:29,330 –> 00:02:34,720
you got a court officer in the hallway with a badge and a gun so that I think helped de escalate things .

46
00:02:34,720 –> 00:02:45,700
But just what an unprofessional thing on the part of this attorney and this attorney actually ended up leaving the case and had another attorney who was with a different practice step on because he was ,

47
00:02:45,700 –> 00:02:47,790
I think just so embarrassed and you know ,

48
00:02:47,790 –> 00:02:52,620
what would have happened had I been in court the next time and relate that story to the judge .

49
00:02:52,620 –> 00:02:55,690
So you just don’t do those kinds of things .

50
00:02:55,690 –> 00:02:55,840
Yeah .

51
00:02:55,840 –> 00:03:01,570
And I mean obviously conflict escalating to throwing hands is not where we want to go ,

52
00:03:01,570 –> 00:03:03,660
especially when we talk about marriage .

53
00:03:04,040 –> 00:03:06,320
You and I have talked about this a lot .

54
00:03:06,330 –> 00:03:07,990
And obviously we ,

55
00:03:07,990 –> 00:03:08,340
we’ve ,

56
00:03:08,350 –> 00:03:09,800
we’ve had conflicts .

57
00:03:09,810 –> 00:03:11,090
Not like that .

58
00:03:11,090 –> 00:03:11,490
No ,

59
00:03:11,500 –> 00:03:11,800
no ,

60
00:03:11,810 –> 00:03:13,050
no one’s throwing hands .

61
00:03:13,060 –> 00:03:14,000
That’s for sure ,

62
00:03:14,010 –> 00:03:15,570
conflicts happen in marriage .

63
00:03:15,570 –> 00:03:15,940
It’s just ,

64
00:03:15,950 –> 00:03:17,850
it’s a normal thing .

65
00:03:17,860 –> 00:03:18,820
Sure .

66
00:03:18,830 –> 00:03:19,360
You know ,

67
00:03:19,360 –> 00:03:20,650
when we’ve talked to couples ,

68
00:03:20,650 –> 00:03:22,790
especially when we’ve done like premarital counseling ,

69
00:03:22,790 –> 00:03:23,260
right ?

70
00:03:23,270 –> 00:03:30,420
They’ve got the stars in their eyes and they’re doing premarital counseling because the pastor just won’t marry them until they do this .

71
00:03:30,420 –> 00:03:31,470
It’s just a requirement .

72
00:03:31,470 –> 00:03:31,840
But it’s like ,

73
00:03:31,840 –> 00:03:32,030
yeah ,

74
00:03:32,030 –> 00:03:34,180
we don’t really need this were perfect .

75
00:03:34,180 –> 00:03:38,810
We’ve got the perfect relationship and we get to conflict and well ,

76
00:03:38,810 –> 00:03:40,460
we never have conflict .

77
00:03:41,040 –> 00:03:42,880
But lack of conflict is bad ,

78
00:03:42,880 –> 00:03:43,360
isn’t it ?

79
00:03:43,370 –> 00:03:43,930
Oh ,

80
00:03:43,930 –> 00:03:53,060
I’d say that’s absolutely the case because that means that you’re not expressing yourself and putting out what your opinions are and what’s going on .

81
00:03:53,060 –> 00:03:55,170
And I’m not talking about petty stuff .

82
00:03:55,180 –> 00:04:02,540
You might be putting a cloak over who you really are and just how you would be dealing with different issues .

83
00:04:02,540 –> 00:04:09,860
So conflict I think is a very healthy thing because we’re unique individuals and we have different needs .

84
00:04:09,860 –> 00:04:11,290
We have different goals .

85
00:04:11,290 –> 00:04:21,130
We have different desires and we need to make sure that we’re not downplaying who we are to just blend into a relationship because that’s not healthy .

86
00:04:21,140 –> 00:04:21,410
Yeah ,

87
00:04:21,420 –> 00:04:25,140
we’re going to talk about expectations in another podcast .

88
00:04:25,140 –> 00:04:25,750
But even to ,

89
00:04:25,750 –> 00:04:27,600
I think with the petty stuff ,

90
00:04:27,610 –> 00:04:29,410
you got to make sure you’re defining what’s petty ,

91
00:04:29,410 –> 00:04:29,980
right ?

92
00:04:29,990 –> 00:04:30,730
That’s true .

93
00:04:30,740 –> 00:04:31,000
I mean ,

94
00:04:31,000 –> 00:04:34,060
some things may be a big deal .

95
00:04:34,070 –> 00:04:35,250
We talk in the book ,

96
00:04:35,260 –> 00:04:35,470
you know ,

97
00:04:35,470 –> 00:04:37,800
the whole toothpaste illustration we use in the book where ,

98
00:04:37,800 –> 00:04:38,070
okay ,

99
00:04:38,070 –> 00:04:45,280
that to me isn’t a major issue because it just takes me extra time to for those who have read the book ,

100
00:04:45,290 –> 00:04:47,040
jen squeezes the toothpaste from the middle .

101
00:04:47,040 –> 00:04:47,910
She doesn’t wrong .

102
00:04:47,910 –> 00:04:52,150
And I allow her to do that and I didn’t find out this was ,

103
00:04:52,240 –> 00:04:52,590
you know ,

104
00:04:52,590 –> 00:04:56,120
even something that crossed brian’s mind until I read the first draft of the book ,

105
00:04:56,120 –> 00:04:57,050
another issue .

106
00:04:57,060 –> 00:04:57,740
So I mean ,

107
00:04:57,750 –> 00:04:58,690
communication stuff ,

108
00:04:58,690 –> 00:04:59,180
right ?

109
00:04:59,190 –> 00:04:59,880
Yes ,

110
00:04:59,890 –> 00:05:00,810
communication went .

111
00:05:00,820 –> 00:05:04,620
But I mean the whole squeezing the toothpaste from the middle or the bottom that that’s not the biggest ,

112
00:05:04,620 –> 00:05:07,600
but there could be other things that maybe ,

113
00:05:07,600 –> 00:05:13,480
I mean we had this issue before we hung the hook up where we put our keys where keys were getting lost all the time .

114
00:05:13,490 –> 00:05:15,530
And that could be petty .

115
00:05:15,540 –> 00:05:16,650
And at first it’s like ,

116
00:05:16,660 –> 00:05:17,120
well ,

117
00:05:17,130 –> 00:05:20,760
just just remember where you put the keys and just when I asked where the keys are ,

118
00:05:20,760 –> 00:05:21,220
just tell me ,

119
00:05:21,230 –> 00:05:26,010
but that became something that was important enough for us to do something about it really .

120
00:05:26,010 –> 00:05:28,560
We talked about this a lot um in the book ,

121
00:05:28,940 –> 00:05:33,160
conflict is important because what marriage is ,

122
00:05:33,540 –> 00:05:33,960
you know ,

123
00:05:33,970 –> 00:05:37,520
the purpose of marriage isn’t for people just to be happy .

124
00:05:37,530 –> 00:05:42,980
Happiness is a horrible goal for a marriage because happiness is just fleeting .

125
00:05:42,990 –> 00:05:43,640
It just kind of ,

126
00:05:43,650 –> 00:05:47,090
it comes and goes and so we talked about three purposes for marriage ,

127
00:05:47,090 –> 00:05:48,970
experiencing mature ,

128
00:05:48,970 –> 00:05:54,850
fulfilling love growing to be more like jesus and representing God to the people around us .

129
00:05:55,340 –> 00:05:58,490
Sometimes I don’t do that well and sometimes I need ,

130
00:05:58,500 –> 00:06:05,310
I need you to to point out to me where I’m not doing these things and of course that’s going to lead to conflict ,

131
00:06:05,310 –> 00:06:05,750
isn’t it ?

132
00:06:06,140 –> 00:06:06,980
It sure is .

133
00:06:06,980 –> 00:06:12,740
And I mean I I throw a mia culpa for for these things to I’m certainly not perfect in any of this .

134
00:06:12,750 –> 00:06:15,730
We’re both just on the journey to ,

135
00:06:15,740 –> 00:06:23,530
to be more like jesus and I think that each of us can be that that tool to sharpen the other .

136
00:06:23,540 –> 00:06:33,560
We do want to make sure that we’re fulfilling that purpose of marriage and living that out to just grow to be more like God and you don’t always get there in the prettiest kinds of ways .

137
00:06:33,840 –> 00:06:34,270
Exactly .

138
00:06:34,270 –> 00:06:34,590
I mean ,

139
00:06:34,600 –> 00:06:36,070
conflict is never comfortable .

140
00:06:36,080 –> 00:06:39,740
The people that like conflict just like argument .

141
00:06:39,740 –> 00:06:41,660
They like the adrenaline rush or something .

142
00:06:41,670 –> 00:06:42,000
It’s like ,

143
00:06:42,010 –> 00:06:43,540
it’s their version of a roller coaster ,

144
00:06:43,540 –> 00:06:44,860
that conflict isn’t pleasant .

145
00:06:44,860 –> 00:06:45,360
It’s not fun ,

146
00:06:45,360 –> 00:06:46,350
but it’s important .

147
00:06:46,360 –> 00:06:47,700
I’d say in a marriage certainly ,

148
00:06:47,700 –> 00:06:50,400
I mean talk about my profession another time ,

149
00:06:50,400 –> 00:06:53,920
just some attorneys and there can be some strategy and some things like that .

150
00:06:53,920 –> 00:06:56,300
But certainly the interpersonal relationships .

151
00:06:56,310 –> 00:06:57,900
It’s not about gamesmanship .

152
00:06:57,900 –> 00:07:00,160
It’s about acting as that team together .

153
00:07:00,440 –> 00:07:00,700
Yeah ,

154
00:07:00,710 –> 00:07:01,100
absolutely .

155
00:07:01,100 –> 00:07:03,980
I mean a marriage isn’t a lawsuit here is different .

156
00:07:03,990 –> 00:07:07,090
This is by its very nature adversarial ,

157
00:07:07,100 –> 00:07:08,430
but marriages aren’t adversarial .

158
00:07:08,430 –> 00:07:09,730
There’s just conflict .

159
00:07:09,740 –> 00:07:11,170
If there’s not conflict ,

160
00:07:11,180 –> 00:07:14,250
then someone isn’t being honest .

161
00:07:14,260 –> 00:07:19,620
Someone is either just hiding their personality or over doing the submission aspect ,

162
00:07:19,620 –> 00:07:19,960
right ?

163
00:07:20,040 –> 00:07:20,580
Oh sure .

164
00:07:20,580 –> 00:07:23,350
And on either side and I love you Pat Benatar ,

165
00:07:23,350 –> 00:07:25,350
but love should not be a battlefield .

166
00:07:25,440 –> 00:07:29,580
But we should have had our son who plays drums in here to help out with the rim shots .

167
00:07:29,590 –> 00:07:33,150
Conflict isn’t bad mishandled conflict .

168
00:07:33,150 –> 00:07:34,220
I think that’s the problem .

169
00:07:34,230 –> 00:07:40,270
And I think when we talk to couples and when you talk to people who are dealing with conflict and they want to avoid it .

170
00:07:40,280 –> 00:07:42,230
It’s not the conflict they want to avoid .

171
00:07:42,240 –> 00:07:44,460
It’s the mishandled conflict .

172
00:07:44,940 –> 00:07:53,730
I think that’s true because I think that there’s a misnomer that when I bring up an issue and I get to the other side of that with this person ,

173
00:07:53,730 –> 00:07:55,390
it’s for sure going to be worse .

174
00:07:55,390 –> 00:08:12,440
And that’s not true because a lot of times you’re just that one awkward conversation or difficult conversation away from having that thriving marriage and that conflict is really there to strengthen your relationship when it’s handled the right way .

175
00:08:12,450 –> 00:08:12,760
Yeah .

176
00:08:12,770 –> 00:08:21,900
It’s that choice to that one choice you need to make and it’s so funny too because people want that but they’re afraid of the outcome they’re afraid of ,

177
00:08:21,910 –> 00:08:23,740
oh this is just going to get worse .

178
00:08:23,740 –> 00:08:27,560
But sometimes you’re feeling bad because things aren’t resolved .

179
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There’s an issue you’re dealing with that’s not coming up and mishandled conflict when we call it mishandled conflict ,

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what we mean is conflict isn’t resolved appropriately .

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And so like a conflict that you’ve tried to resolve it ,

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but it became angry ,

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it became okay ,

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fine your way and then you stomp off .

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It’s something that there was not an agreement between us .

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It was just either I’m gonna demand my rights ,

187
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I’m gonna demand what I want or I’m going to say this isn’t important enough to me and I’m just gonna walk away and when you say this isn’t important enough to me ,

188
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what you’re saying to your spouse’s ,

189
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you’re not important enough to me to deal with this or at least that’s how the spouse is going to receive it .

190
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That might not actually be the case .

191
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But don’t say something like that because it certainly could communicate that to your spouse and to me very likely would communicate that to your spouse .

192
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Message sent is not message received .

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You send a message that you meant one thing ,

194
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but the message received is totally opposite .

195
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Are certainly not what you intended ?

196
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How then do we resolve conflict ?

197
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Well what are the keys to resolving conflict in a positive way .

198
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Well ,

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I think between the two of us ,

200
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we we’ve really come up with a few principles ,

201
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which is be kind and be clear and be present as you’re handling that and kindness friends that that really connects us up as being one of those fruits of the spirit that paul outlines in Galatians 5 22 .

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Just approaching things from saying ,

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we’re on a team together ,

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we rise or fall together .

205
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And even when you see basketball players who might not get along well off the court ,

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they’re acting as that unit together for the good of the team and doing well and winning championships and they’re not going to be able to do that if they’re not playing the way that they need to and taking care of each other and having each other’s backs on the court .

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Certainly it’s the same kind of thing with marriage ,

208
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but kindness ,

209
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I think really rules too into being able to speak to the heart of your spouse and show them that you’re you’re for them well .

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And being nice isn’t being weak .

211
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And I think at least on some ways that masculinity is perceived to present it right ,

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is if you’re being nice ,

213
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you’re being submissive .

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And I mean ,

215
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we see that a lot in movies and tv shows the macho man is the one who I’ve got control of the situation and they’re just kind of a jerk kind of the anti hero that’s so popular in movies ,

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like Yeah ,

217
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that person killed the bad guys or whatever ,

218
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but there were a jerk in the process .

219
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There’s so many different anti heroes out there in movies .

220
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But being nice isn’t being weak .

221
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It’s strength because you don’t need to assert yourself to get to the conclusion .

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That’s best in the marriage and you can be strong and be kind at the same time .

223
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I think that’s certainly the case outside of marriage is as well as inside marriage is when you’re dealing with resolving a conflict .

224
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But that’s why these movies with the anti heroes that’s why they’re fiction ,

225
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right ?

226
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It’s a script and I think it takes more strength in a conflict to do what you need to do to have that self control and to exercise that kindness .

227
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It’s certainly not weakness because I think it’s a lot easier for people to just blow up on each other .

228
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Well and also it’s just frankly a good idea .

229
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I mean proverbs 15 1 a gentle response turns away anger ,

230
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but a harsh word stirs up wrath .

231
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If you and I are talking and I’m an upset and if I come at you like I mean throwing the knife hand and putting all the old crusty N .

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C .

233
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O .

234
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Attitude ,

235
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you will you will you will and I just come in that attitude .

236
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But automatically you have no desire to work with me at that point because I just completely shut you down and put you in a situation where now you want to defend yourself because I’ve attacked you know ,

237
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in the natural responsive when you’re attacked is defend yourself because you’d have to right ?

238
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Yeah ,

239
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it’s just when we’re talking ,

240
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I mean when you’re kind ,

241
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when you consider it ,

242
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it’s just it’s just a good idea .

243
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It just makes sense because the goal isn’t to get your way ,

244
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the goal is to have a stronger marriage .

245
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Again ,

246
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this choice is to have a thriving marriage so that we are experiencing that fulfilling love ,

247
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being more like jesus and representing God ,

248
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it’s all about living a holy life and this conversation ,

249
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this conflict ,

250
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ultimately we want to get out of it being more holy than we were before the conflict started .

251
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That’s it .

252
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Absolutely .

253
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And I’d say it’s kind of taking this to the second point of being able to be clear ,

254
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shout out to the women because of the stereotype of ,

255
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you know ,

256
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my man should be able to read my mind ,

257
00:12:59,340 –> 00:13:00,600
and that’s just not true .

258
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You have to communicate clearly just as to what the conflict is and what your goals are and what you want to have done and see what you can do to to communicate that out .

259
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So just blinding clarity .

260
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Absolutely .

261
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And my dad used to joke around ,

262
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like ,

263
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don’t drop hints ,

264
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I’m not smart enough to pick them up ,

265
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and that’s true of me .

266
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I mean ,

267
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if you’re dropping the hint is like ,

268
00:13:20,120 –> 00:13:20,240
well ,

269
00:13:20,240 –> 00:13:21,180
what’s that on the floor ?

270
00:13:21,190 –> 00:13:22,610
I’m not going to pick it up ,

271
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I’m just not smart enough and it’s also got to be language though ,

272
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that they understand .

273
00:13:28,140 –> 00:13:30,080
We can get in our conversations .

274
00:13:30,080 –> 00:13:32,080
There’s often times when I’ve had to tell you ,

275
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okay sweetheart ,

276
00:13:32,990 –> 00:13:34,810
stop that entire sentence .

277
00:13:34,810 –> 00:13:42,220
You just said re say it because you used a bunch of legal stuff or use the words that I just don’t know what those words mean .

278
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And so I need ,

279
00:13:42,890 –> 00:13:46,500
so we need to make sure we’re using language because I can do the same thing .

280
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Right ?

281
00:13:46,710 –> 00:13:50,240
When I get into my military jargon and start using all the acronyms .

282
00:13:50,250 –> 00:13:51,160
Okay ,

283
00:13:51,240 –> 00:13:53,560
you can set an entire sentence without a whole word brian .

284
00:13:53,560 –> 00:13:55,560
You need to define every one of those things .

285
00:13:55,560 –> 00:14:01,640
So part of clarity is making sure we’re using the words that each other nose and depending on your job ,

286
00:14:01,640 –> 00:14:03,650
depending on how you grew up .

287
00:14:03,660 –> 00:14:09,280
Sometimes we’ve got friends who the wife is jamaican and I’m making up this illustration .

288
00:14:09,280 –> 00:14:09,820
They didn’t tell me this ,

289
00:14:09,820 –> 00:14:17,210
but I could see if she was using some jamaican idioms or something that her husband who is american from the midwest would be like ,

290
00:14:17,220 –> 00:14:17,610
yeah ,

291
00:14:17,610 –> 00:14:19,400
I don’t know what any of that means .

292
00:14:19,400 –> 00:14:22,720
We’ve got to be clear and our backgrounds are going to be different .

293
00:14:22,720 –> 00:14:25,050
We’re going to have different words that mean different things .

294
00:14:25,340 –> 00:14:27,220
I think that that’s absolutely the case .

295
00:14:27,220 –> 00:14:35,850
And I think just in addition to clarity um when we’re able to be there and be present were not checked out on our phones .

296
00:14:35,860 –> 00:14:36,150
Um ,

297
00:14:36,150 –> 00:14:40,240
we’re not checked out by watching a tv show .

298
00:14:40,250 –> 00:14:40,680
Um ,

299
00:14:40,680 –> 00:14:51,950
we’re not busy with kids or cooking something that’s really complex or busy with something that requires a whole lot of attention .

300
00:14:52,140 –> 00:14:52,420
Um ,

301
00:14:52,420 –> 00:15:02,630
we really have to make sure that we’re there and we’re present for our spouse just as we’re having these more difficult or more awkward conversations and efforts to try to resolve the conflict ,

302
00:15:02,640 –> 00:15:05,470
not just be physically mentally and emotionally present .

303
00:15:05,470 –> 00:15:08,130
We’ve also got to handle conflicts in the present tense .

304
00:15:08,180 –> 00:15:13,460
The conflict that you’re having is that conflict not what happened 6 ,

305
00:15:13,460 –> 00:15:13,940
12 ,

306
00:15:13,950 –> 00:15:19,930
18 months ago with this boyfriend or girlfriend you had in high school or whatever it is .

307
00:15:19,940 –> 00:15:21,210
I can’t talk about that .

308
00:15:21,210 –> 00:15:21,350
No ,

309
00:15:21,350 –> 00:15:21,660
we’re not ,

310
00:15:21,660 –> 00:15:24,120
we’re not going to talk about that conflicts again .

311
00:15:24,120 –> 00:15:24,890
The President ,

312
00:15:24,900 –> 00:15:29,070
the president has done because I mean it’s not beneficial .

313
00:15:29,070 –> 00:15:29,580
It’s not helpful .

314
00:15:29,580 –> 00:15:33,560
And also you don’t want to anticipate future conflicts ,

315
00:15:33,640 –> 00:15:34,580
let’s not presume .

316
00:15:34,590 –> 00:15:35,150
Oh ,

317
00:15:35,160 –> 00:15:35,890
this is your ,

318
00:15:35,900 –> 00:15:38,770
I know you’re going to do this because this is just the way you are ,

319
00:15:38,780 –> 00:15:42,020
the conflicts that you’re having is has to be in the present tense .

320
00:15:42,020 –> 00:15:44,700
It can’t be in any other situation .

321
00:15:44,700 –> 00:15:46,180
We can talk about the past or the future .

322
00:15:46,180 –> 00:15:49,190
You can talk about what’s going on right now and deal with that conflict .

323
00:15:49,190 –> 00:15:57,050
You can talk about the future tense conflict because I think there’s a tom cruise movie saying you can’t punish people for crimes that were very confident they’ll commit in the future ,

324
00:15:57,050 –> 00:15:57,750
we’re just ,

325
00:15:57,760 –> 00:16:00,080
we’re just going to deal with what we got right now .

326
00:16:00,080 –> 00:16:01,110
And uh ,

327
00:16:01,120 –> 00:16:05,380
hopefully some adjustments can be made so that there wouldn’t be other conflicts in the future .

328
00:16:05,390 –> 00:16:11,070
And also being present means allowing each other space to engage in the conversation .

329
00:16:11,080 –> 00:16:12,230
Dialogues ,

330
00:16:12,230 –> 00:16:13,520
resolve conflicts ,

331
00:16:13,530 –> 00:16:14,710
not monologues .

332
00:16:14,800 –> 00:16:18,300
I’m a theater person and brian is as well .

333
00:16:18,300 –> 00:16:25,040
So we want to make sure we don’t do that monologue presentation or monster log if it gets too big and ugly ,

334
00:16:25,040 –> 00:16:25,390
right ?

335
00:16:25,400 –> 00:16:28,000
It’s a conversation for our friends who love theater .

336
00:16:28,000 –> 00:16:31,120
I mean everyone loves to see a good monologue in a Shakespearean play .

337
00:16:31,120 –> 00:16:34,740
No one loves to listen to their spouse monologue about all the stuff they’ve screwed up .

338
00:16:34,750 –> 00:16:35,540
Ouch ,

339
00:16:35,550 –> 00:16:37,670
how about I do a monologue and all the things you do ,

340
00:16:37,670 –> 00:16:38,270
right babe .

341
00:16:38,280 –> 00:16:38,460
Yeah ,

342
00:16:38,460 –> 00:16:39,180
we can go with that .

343
00:16:39,180 –> 00:16:40,290
Let’s plan that after this .

344
00:16:40,290 –> 00:16:45,270
I like that conflict is so important in marriage .

345
00:16:45,280 –> 00:16:45,700
It’s just ,

346
00:16:45,710 –> 00:16:53,160
it really is because there’s a pastor that we met down in texas a couple months ago and I love the way he describes marriage ,

347
00:16:53,170 –> 00:16:53,730
tim ross ,

348
00:16:53,730 –> 00:16:55,220
shout out to tim ross if you’re listening .

349
00:16:55,230 –> 00:17:05,520
Um because he describes marriage as your spouse is you outside of you looking at you telling you about you and the purpose ultimately is for us to be more holy .

350
00:17:05,530 –> 00:17:08,160
And I am really good at lying to myself .

351
00:17:08,240 –> 00:17:12,870
I’m really good at thinking I am the greatest at whatever or I’m really good at hiding .

352
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:13,160
Hey ,

353
00:17:13,160 –> 00:17:14,110
I know I’m not good at that ,

354
00:17:14,110 –> 00:17:15,600
but I’m good at covering it up to myself ,

355
00:17:15,610 –> 00:17:22,580
but jen is really good at pointing out to me where I’m lying to myself and I need her to do that because that’s where holiness comes .

356
00:17:22,580 –> 00:17:27,560
That’s where we grow to be more like jesus by having someone tell us when we’re not doing what we’re supposed to be doing .

357
00:17:27,740 –> 00:17:30,590
I think that that’s the case and I got your back on that babe .

358
00:17:30,590 –> 00:17:31,660
But also ,

359
00:17:31,660 –> 00:17:31,970
you know ,

360
00:17:31,970 –> 00:17:32,260
you ,

361
00:17:32,270 –> 00:17:33,780
you will come to me and say ,

362
00:17:33,780 –> 00:17:34,200
hey ,

363
00:17:34,200 –> 00:17:34,490
you know ,

364
00:17:34,490 –> 00:17:41,890
this is something that you’re not doing well here and you’re not bursting into a conversation screaming at me about it ever .

365
00:17:41,890 –> 00:17:42,060
You’re ,

366
00:17:42,060 –> 00:17:42,360
you’re ,

367
00:17:42,370 –> 00:17:43,140
you’re just kind of like ,

368
00:17:43,140 –> 00:17:43,370
hey ,

369
00:17:43,370 –> 00:17:44,200
I got to talk to ,

370
00:17:44,200 –> 00:17:48,480
I’m going to pull you aside and just let you know that this wasn’t handled well and ,

371
00:17:48,480 –> 00:17:49,450
and here’s why ,

372
00:17:49,450 –> 00:17:50,270
and you know what ,

373
00:17:50,270 –> 00:17:53,160
what can we do to work this out and figure this out ?

374
00:17:53,170 –> 00:18:08,170
Because I don’t think any spouses are going into to a marriage relationship or people who are christians are not trying to live their lives in such a way where they want to contradict christ or live in such a way that it isn’t the best thing that he would want to have for us ,

375
00:18:08,170 –> 00:18:10,410
but just as we slip up and make mistakes that ,

376
00:18:10,420 –> 00:18:12,550
that just gentle confrontation ,

377
00:18:12,560 –> 00:18:13,050
um ,

378
00:18:13,050 –> 00:18:16,860
is great and I always say confrontation is not a condemnation .

379
00:18:17,040 –> 00:18:22,050
It’s very much something that we need to confront each other in love ,

380
00:18:22,050 –> 00:18:25,610
being that spouse that has each other’s backs and it’s never comfortable .

381
00:18:25,620 –> 00:18:25,920
I mean ,

382
00:18:25,930 –> 00:18:27,080
you don’t like me coming to say ,

383
00:18:27,080 –> 00:18:28,470
hey jen this is what’s going on .

384
00:18:28,470 –> 00:18:37,410
And I’m always feeling anxiety when I do it because there’s always the chance that I’m going to come at this the wrong way or you’re going to receive it in a way that’s going to make it not a positive thing .

385
00:18:37,410 –> 00:18:38,260
And let’s be honest ,

386
00:18:38,260 –> 00:18:39,370
that happens sometimes ,

387
00:18:39,370 –> 00:18:39,800
right ?

388
00:18:39,810 –> 00:18:44,500
It’s better in the long run when we get through it were closer to each other ,

389
00:18:44,500 –> 00:18:46,860
we’re closer to God because we were able to do that .

390
00:18:47,440 –> 00:18:49,180
So as we just wrap up today ,

391
00:18:49,190 –> 00:18:54,370
I think the big things we we want you to remember is the choice to have that conflict .

392
00:18:54,380 –> 00:18:58,340
Is that choice you may need to make to have that thriving marriage .

393
00:18:58,350 –> 00:19:02,350
Don’t hide from conflict because that’s not going to give you the marriage you want .

394
00:19:02,940 –> 00:19:04,190
Although in that conflict ,

395
00:19:04,200 –> 00:19:05,160
be kind ,

396
00:19:05,640 –> 00:19:06,350
just be loving ,

397
00:19:06,350 –> 00:19:13,860
be kind be clear and be present in the conversation and then you will be able to have a thriving marriage .

398
00:19:14,240 –> 00:19:15,710
Thank you for listening to the operation ,

399
00:19:15,710 –> 00:19:18,460
thriving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer harvey ,

400
00:19:19,140 –> 00:19:22,020
we have another opportunity for you to help your marriage thrive .

401
00:19:22,030 –> 00:19:26,950
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402
00:19:26,980 –> 00:19:33,260
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403
00:19:33,270 –> 00:19:36,360
We’ll talk about enhancing communication skills ,

404
00:19:36,440 –> 00:19:39,260
conflict resolution and building intimacy in your marriage .

405
00:19:39,440 –> 00:19:41,480
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406
00:19:41,480 –> 00:19:43,680
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407
00:19:43,730 –> 00:19:46,990
All you have to do is mention the Operation thriving marriage podcast .

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When you register this retreat is limited to only nine couples .

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So make sure you register soon .

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For more information .

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Contact us at our website ,

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operation thriving marriage dot com .

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We look forward to meeting you in person .