Bryon Harvey

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missions off the couch and stuff trying to find the stupid little thing because yeah,

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it’s just where’s the remote control?

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Oh yeah.

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And why is it always how does the remote control get under the couch in the first place?

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No idea.

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It’s like we got a duct tape that thing to a table or something.

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Yeah,

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I think that’s probably when I get the angry.

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Yes.

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It seems like some of it,

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it’s that anger is always that secondary emotion,

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right?

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It’s like you start off,

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you’ve got the anxiety and then the anxiety leads to the anger.

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You may be one choice away from a thriving marriage.

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Welcome to the operation driving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer harman.

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Yeah.

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Hey sweetheart,

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we’re back in the studio for another recording of the podcast.

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How you feeling about things.

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Hey doing great over here.

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So thanks for listening in friends and today.

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What we’re going to be doing is talking about how we can manage anger and not that anyone ever has problems with anger.

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No,

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never,

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never a problem in any kind of a relationship,

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let alone a marriage.

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You know,

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I know some families were,

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unfortunately it’s characterization of the family or the marriage is anger and that causes the anger and a lot of baggage that then comes from the anger.

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So certainly got to make sure that’s handled inappropriate kind of ways.

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Yeah,

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It’s crazy,

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right?

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People have different attitudes about anger and stuff but it’s almost cliche that you’ve got the mad parent,

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right?

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We love watching superhero shows and at least I do.

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And jen watches them with me,

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it’s all good,

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it’s almost cliche,

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you’ve got the angry parent all the time,

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right?

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It’s just,

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it seems like people expect someone in a marriage to always be angry and that’s a problem because these are the fictitious tv shows,

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but I think that that’s pouring over just into our collective kind of psyche,

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just as to some of our expectations of how things should be,

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but I think God has a lot better for us than having one person in the marriage,

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he’s always angry or both,

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you know,

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we need to be following God and live the way he wants us to live and it’s certainly not living into anger,

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right?

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People will try to excuse it,

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right,

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it’s like,

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well jesus got mad writer singer,

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there’s a,

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there’s a meme that’s been going around for a while that says,

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hey,

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um you know,

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the whole,

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what would jesus do or be like jesus remember that turning over tables and chasing people out of the building with a whip is within the realm of possibility,

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it’s like,

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okay,

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yeah,

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but that’s so out of context because jesus had a specific reason and this idea of,

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oh I’m just going to be angry and just gotta put up with my anger,

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that that’s scary,

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I mean,

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I think really,

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especially in families,

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like with kids,

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it’s like if mom or dad’s always mad,

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it’s just,

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it’s kind of scary to always be dealing with anger Yeah,

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it’s definitely an environment that would produce a lot of anxiety there and uh,

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you know,

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again,

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jesus would be the embodiment of what the perfect Godly anger would be like,

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I think that even when he was turning over tables in the temple that was under control,

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but you know,

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brian,

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what are some things that would make you angry?

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So we’re going to go there episode two and we’re already going,

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oh,

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I’m in trouble now.

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I think this is an obvious one obviously.

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Well for you because you watched me deal with it so much,

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I get so stressed.

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So first of all,

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for the listeners,

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I’m an army brat,

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grew up,

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my dad was in the army 21 years and timeliness has been a thing my whole life.

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It’s like,

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no,

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you are not late to anything.

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I like being on time.

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I didn’t say you didn’t like being on time,

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somebody who’s running late,

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but you don’t experience anxiety for when we’re running late.

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So that wasn’t,

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that’s true.

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That is true.

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That was not a slam.

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I get really anxious about timeliness and when it’s time to go and something that just makes me so angry is when we have to take something with us or we can’t find something that bothers me in general,

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the kids are coming up to me saying,

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I can’t find my Pokemon card or my case for my glasses,

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whatever it is,

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it’s like if you would just put things away where they belong then we’re going there brian,

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we would not be searching all over the house for this thing.

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But in fairness in fairness I get just as mad at me as I do it.

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Anyone else about this?

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Right.

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So I think you get madder at you when you can’t find something.

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It’s just I mean everyone is just dad brian is on the warpath here turning pulling cushions off the couch and stuff trying to find the stupid little thing because yeah,

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it’s just where’s the remote control?

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Oh yeah.

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And why is it always how does the remote control get under the couch in the first place?

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No idea.

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It’s like we got duct tape,

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that thing to a table or something.

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Yeah,

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I think that’s probably at least at home.

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That’s probably when I get the angriest I think.

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And it seems like some of it it’s that the anger is always that secondary emotion,

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right?

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It’s like you start off you’ve got the anxiety and then the anxiety leads to the anger.

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That or we’re going to talk about this later podcast.

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Right,

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expectations.

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I expect.

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I told you the remote control always goes on this table.

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a remote control on that table.

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But that’s where the remote control expectations.

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Right?

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The cat moved it.

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Sure,

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sure.

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Yeah,

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the cat moved it because she was trying to turn on the aquarium to watch her cat tv something like that in that sense.

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I’ve got to be honest though,

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my emotion gets the better of me sometimes and I’ve got to get things under control.

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But anger is not always bad.

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Oh no,

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I would say that anger is certainly not the bad thing about it because the natural emotion,

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everybody is going to experience some anger and a lot of that,

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it’s coming from something else.

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Again,

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it’s triggered by some anxiety or some fear.

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And anger is that response and kind of manifestation to kind of help protect from that initial emotion that’s there.

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So what isn’t bad is the anger in and of itself?

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But if it’s mishandled,

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that’s when the anger is going to be a bad thing.

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Yeah.

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Even even God,

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when we look at scripture,

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God got angry.

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I mean look at the profits.

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My God,

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she got really angry at Israel for their idolatry.

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Sure he called it,

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I mean he called their idolatry adultery.

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You know,

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at one point he even says,

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look I’m divorcing you.

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I mean God divorced Israel because he was so mad at them because they were doing the wrong thing.

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So feeling anger and when things ought not be so or we think about different situations in the world,

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when we watched the news,

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we see things that ought not be so,

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it’s okay to feel angry.

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And I mean going back to the illustration of the beginning,

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right jesus is chasing people out of the temple because the money changers and all those people in the temple,

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they were keeping people from God.

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They were trying to force people away from from God and not experience the fullness of the experience of God and it ought not be so.

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And jesus,

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yeah,

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I’m angry about this because it ought not be so.

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But also I would say to when you look at God in the old testament,

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sometimes people will kind of come up with this misnomer of God in the old testament is angry,

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but God and the new testament is loving and that’s not true because God has always been loving and I love how he describes himself in exodus as being so loving and gracious and slow to anger and that’s something that we should be emulating,

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because if anybody can do the angry scorched the earth,

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it is literally God,

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but that’s not who he is,

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that’s not in his character and not that he can’t act and punish for these sins as he has certainly done in the old testament as you were talking about in Isaiah and Jeremiah,

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but he’s always here,

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he always loves us and he always provides that redemption and that’s particularly the case by sending jesus to us.

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I think that’s a good point,

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you’re right,

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because I mean,

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it’s easy to go off about the angry God and that’s even a cliche,

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right?

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The people have tried to claim there’s two different gods and the bible old testament,

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New testament,

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this is about marriage,

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not about theology.

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So I’ve got to watch myself.

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But yeah,

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you’re right.

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And that’s important to bring out because also when you look at the profits,

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you don’t just see God’s anger.

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You see God’s sadness and feeling of betrayal.

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But it’s also,

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you know,

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his love,

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him wanting to reach out and bring back people to what’s going on.

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Let’s talk about managing our anger though,

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because I think that there’s a passage in Ephesians that really is important for this,

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but I think it’s something that people don’t always understand completely.

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I’m going to read this passage then what we’ll talk about a little bit Ephesians,

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um Chapter four,

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starting in verse 26,

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it says be angry and do not sin.

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Do not let the sun go down on the cause of your anger.

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Do not give the devil an opportunity.

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Some translations don’t say the cause of your anger just says don’t let the sun go down on your anger.

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That’s an interesting passage because it presumes you will get angry,

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right?

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We all do.

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Yeah,

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we’re going to get angry.

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So it’s presumed that you can get in this passage by the way,

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it’s not just talking about anger.

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That’s one of the things I think is really important too because we’re talking about managing anger and marriage.

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But if you took this literally,

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like some people say this literally is how you have to manage anger in your marriage.

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And so you can’t go to bed,

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you can’t go to sleep until you resolve this issue because you’re giving a devil’s foothold.

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Well,

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if that’s true,

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then this is not talking about marriage is not a marriage passage in Ephesians,

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that would mean any time you were angry with anyone over anything,

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it’s like you’ve got to pick up a call phones.

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Like you can’t go to sleep until we resolve this issue,

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right?

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And that wouldn’t be the case.

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It seems like you were saying that again,

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it’s kind of the don’t let the sun go down on your anger.

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That’s not something that’s unique to the apostle paul,

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is that right?

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Yeah,

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it was an idiom.

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So,

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and that’s the way it should be taken.

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It’s more proverbial paul wasn’t giving a command from God thou shalt not.

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He’s talking about good principles and good ideas that,

246
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hey,

247
00:10:00,390 –> 00:10:02,560
don’t let your anger keep going.

248
00:10:02,940 –> 00:10:04,040
And we’ve seen this,

249
00:10:04,040 –> 00:10:04,240
right?

250
00:10:04,240 –> 00:10:06,290
When people don’t resolve their anger,

251
00:10:06,290 –> 00:10:07,580
their upset at something.

252
00:10:07,590 –> 00:10:09,550
Um we’ve seen it’s just,

253
00:10:09,560 –> 00:10:13,050
it gets worse and worse and it just builds and it festers.

254
00:10:13,060 –> 00:10:14,730
So it seems like a lot of it,

255
00:10:14,730 –> 00:10:18,790
it’s just saying I like to use the term don’t marinate in your anger.

256
00:10:18,800 –> 00:10:20,520
Um you know,

257
00:10:20,530 –> 00:10:25,030
you don’t want that to just get soaked up into you because if you were talking about that,

258
00:10:25,030 –> 00:10:28,760
you’re marinating a piece of chicken that you’re going to cook for dinner.

259
00:10:28,840 –> 00:10:33,210
It takes on that marinade and you just can’t get it off.

260
00:10:33,220 –> 00:10:35,850
But the good news is with anger,

261
00:10:35,860 –> 00:10:39,330
christ can supernaturally remove that from us.

262
00:10:39,330 –> 00:10:47,030
But let’s not do the damage to ourselves by festering and marinating in that to try to give that the devil a foothold.

263
00:10:47,030 –> 00:10:52,460
Because I’d say two if I get mad at you and I’m angry with you at nine o’clock in the morning,

264
00:10:52,460 –> 00:10:53,370
I can’t just say,

265
00:10:53,380 –> 00:10:53,720
oh,

266
00:10:53,720 –> 00:11:00,620
I’m going to revel in this and I’m gonna be really mad at you and then I’ll try to resolve things a half hour before the sun goes down.

267
00:11:00,620 –> 00:11:02,380
That that’s not what this is saying.

268
00:11:02,380 –> 00:11:04,540
It’s saying don’t let this fester,

269
00:11:04,540 –> 00:11:05,530
that’s not gonna work very well.

270
00:11:05,540 –> 00:11:15,170
And I also that point about not giving the devil a foothold because you really do give the anger power over you when you let it fester,

271
00:11:15,170 –> 00:11:15,500
right?

272
00:11:15,510 –> 00:11:17,410
When you just marinated it.

273
00:11:17,410 –> 00:11:18,190
As you were saying,

274
00:11:18,200 –> 00:11:21,620
you give that anger power and control over you.

275
00:11:21,630 –> 00:11:23,020
When our kids were little,

276
00:11:23,030 –> 00:11:26,000
you’re teaching toddlers not to have temper tantrums,

277
00:11:26,000 –> 00:11:31,260
teaching them how to deal with their emotions and their feeling things and they just don’t know what they’re feeling or how to deal with it.

278
00:11:31,440 –> 00:11:34,620
We would always tell them when they were getting angry and stuff like,

279
00:11:34,620 –> 00:11:34,900
hey,

280
00:11:34,910 –> 00:11:36,950
you’ve got to control your emotions,

281
00:11:36,950 –> 00:11:38,540
don’t let your emotions control,

282
00:11:38,540 –> 00:11:39,490
You know,

283
00:11:39,490 –> 00:11:44,120
and we never want to say it’s not okay to feel emotions because that’s repression,

284
00:11:44,120 –> 00:11:45,830
that’s something that’s unhealthy and wrong.

285
00:11:45,840 –> 00:11:48,710
Your emotions aren’t in and of themselves bad.

286
00:11:48,720 –> 00:11:55,660
They’re a response that you’re having to a situation but we can’t let those emotions control us.

287
00:11:55,740 –> 00:11:56,920
Oh absolutely.

288
00:11:56,920 –> 00:11:58,830
I think it’s wise to separate.

289
00:11:58,840 –> 00:12:10,300
I am so angry at this entire person versus I’m angry or I’m frustrated about a situation that we’re trying to resolve because we always talk about the idea of team marriage.

290
00:12:10,300 –> 00:12:11,560
We’re on the same team,

291
00:12:11,560 –> 00:12:13,190
we win or we lose together.

292
00:12:13,190 –> 00:12:17,780
There’s no winner or loser between the two of us because if one is saying I’m the winner,

293
00:12:17,780 –> 00:12:18,630
the other one’s a loser,

294
00:12:18,630 –> 00:12:19,000
guess what?

295
00:12:19,000 –> 00:12:20,460
You both lost the marriage?

296
00:12:20,460 –> 00:12:21,100
Just both of us.

297
00:12:21,110 –> 00:12:24,160
But I think even that I even like the language better.

298
00:12:24,160 –> 00:12:25,520
I’m feeling angry.

299
00:12:25,530 –> 00:12:30,220
Feeling anger in the mantis character in Garden of the Galaxy Volume two,

300
00:12:30,220 –> 00:12:32,380
she talks about how feelings she controls emotions.

301
00:12:32,380 –> 00:12:32,630
Anyway,

302
00:12:32,630 –> 00:12:32,930
okay,

303
00:12:32,930 –> 00:12:34,710
I geek out on the bible and on marvel.

304
00:12:34,720 –> 00:12:35,120
You know,

305
00:12:35,120 –> 00:12:39,430
you feeling anger because when you say I am angry now,

306
00:12:39,430 –> 00:12:42,940
you’re even using language of identity and it’s not I’m not anger.

307
00:12:42,940 –> 00:12:43,900
I am not my anger.

308
00:12:43,910 –> 00:12:47,760
I feel my anger and that’s something that is part of me,

309
00:12:47,760 –> 00:12:51,520
but just as much as my finger is part of my finger is not me.

310
00:12:51,530 –> 00:12:55,180
But it’s an aspect of me and my anger if I should lose my anger,

311
00:12:55,180 –> 00:12:59,270
I don’t become less of me and I think that sometimes people who fester in their anger,

312
00:12:59,280 –> 00:13:04,560
they become so identified with their anger that they can’t separate what they’re feeling from who they are,

313
00:13:04,570 –> 00:13:04,930
right?

314
00:13:04,930 –> 00:13:12,360
And I think anger being an emotion and feeling that for very specific reasons as opposed to anger becoming part of your character.

315
00:13:12,370 –> 00:13:14,580
And that’s something that you certainly don’t want.

316
00:13:14,580 –> 00:13:17,440
You don’t want to be characterized by anger.

317
00:13:17,450 –> 00:13:20,570
You don’t want anger to be a part of what your character is.

318
00:13:20,570 –> 00:13:21,940
But I do think sometimes where it’s like,

319
00:13:21,940 –> 00:13:22,210
hey,

320
00:13:22,210 –> 00:13:24,940
I’m angry about this particular situation,

321
00:13:24,950 –> 00:13:28,900
it’s sometimes it is wise to say we’re going to table this discussion,

322
00:13:28,910 –> 00:13:31,840
we’re going to enjoy each other’s company even.

323
00:13:31,850 –> 00:13:39,570
And we’re just going to sleep on this and then we’re going to wake up in the morning and we’re going to set aside time where we can really tash this out and resolve this matter.

324
00:13:39,570 –> 00:13:42,140
But you need to make sure you’re being proactive about that,

325
00:13:42,150 –> 00:13:43,520
especially in a marriage.

326
00:13:43,530 –> 00:13:43,940
Absolutely.

327
00:13:43,940 –> 00:13:47,120
And I think that a big part of that is because of the physiology of anger,

328
00:13:47,130 –> 00:13:49,580
because of what our bodies do.

329
00:13:49,580 –> 00:13:55,070
And it’s pretty consistent for most people that mean the details may be different.

330
00:13:55,070 –> 00:13:57,440
But this is all starts in our limbic system.

331
00:13:57,440 –> 00:13:59,210
It’s all a response,

332
00:13:59,220 –> 00:14:02,560
a chemical response in our brain to a stimulus,

333
00:14:02,570 –> 00:14:03,420
expectations,

334
00:14:03,420 –> 00:14:05,240
Something happened and responding.

335
00:14:05,240 –> 00:14:10,260
And anger is often because of that fight or flight reaction is being triggered.

336
00:14:10,440 –> 00:14:15,460
And so now our body is being flooded with the chemicals that prepare us for action.

337
00:14:15,470 –> 00:14:19,680
So our capillary swell our blood starts pumping and I don’t know about you,

338
00:14:19,680 –> 00:14:21,920
but I can feel it when I’m really,

339
00:14:21,920 –> 00:14:22,780
really angry.

340
00:14:22,780 –> 00:14:26,760
I can feel my heart start racing,

341
00:14:26,760 –> 00:14:28,640
feel the vein popping in your forehead.

342
00:14:28,650 –> 00:14:28,760
Well,

343
00:14:28,760 –> 00:14:28,870
no,

344
00:14:28,870 –> 00:14:29,470
you see that?

345
00:14:29,470 –> 00:14:30,140
But I don’t feel that.

346
00:14:30,140 –> 00:14:30,700
Okay.

347
00:14:30,710 –> 00:14:33,270
I’m glad you don’t feel that because it looks painful.

348
00:14:33,280 –> 00:14:34,200
It must be scared.

349
00:14:34,210 –> 00:14:36,700
But I can feel my blood pressure rising.

350
00:14:36,700 –> 00:14:41,540
I can feel myself getting angry and a couple of things that I notice.

351
00:14:41,550 –> 00:14:42,670
I grit my teeth,

352
00:14:42,680 –> 00:14:45,780
I start gritting my teeth and I start doubling up my fists.

353
00:14:45,790 –> 00:14:50,040
It’s like my body is responding to that I’m ready to fight.

354
00:14:50,050 –> 00:14:50,280
You know,

355
00:14:50,280 –> 00:14:54,760
even though obviously I’m not going to fight because I can’t find my car keys who are going to fight.

356
00:14:54,770 –> 00:14:59,110
It’s gonna be that seeing like that jim Carrey movie where he beats himself up in the bathroom.

357
00:14:59,120 –> 00:15:00,500
That’s not workable.

358
00:15:00,500 –> 00:15:03,170
And hit brian checking your pants downstairs,

359
00:15:03,170 –> 00:15:03,500
right?

360
00:15:03,500 –> 00:15:05,460
It’s probably probably where your keys are.

361
00:15:05,540 –> 00:15:09,590
Part of that is dealing with the physiology of anger.

362
00:15:09,590 –> 00:15:10,570
So you were talking about,

363
00:15:10,570 –> 00:15:10,690
hey,

364
00:15:10,690 –> 00:15:12,570
sometimes you need to take a break.

365
00:15:12,580 –> 00:15:25,220
You need to take a break just to work out those chemicals workout that adrenaline gets your heart rate down because another thing that happens just physiologically tunnel vision will start happening and you just,

366
00:15:25,220 –> 00:15:27,210
you can’t see what’s going on around you.

367
00:15:27,210 –> 00:15:28,200
You just you get.

368
00:15:28,200 –> 00:15:33,980
So target fixated on I’m angry and this is what’s going on that you can’t deal with real life.

369
00:15:33,990 –> 00:15:40,910
And so you may even not be angry at the thing that you should be angry about because you’re so focused on this and then you’re lashing out.

370
00:15:40,920 –> 00:15:46,020
So I tell the story in the book we hadn’t been in the house we live in now for very long.

371
00:15:46,020 –> 00:15:46,710
We just moved there.

372
00:15:46,710 –> 00:15:52,750
Jonathan was still a baby and I don’t remember what we were arguing about but I was so angry.

373
00:15:52,750 –> 00:15:57,630
We we both work and I was so angry and you went downstairs it’s like okay we need to take a break.

374
00:15:57,640 –> 00:15:58,600
This just isn’t working.

375
00:15:58,600 –> 00:15:59,370
So you went downstairs.

376
00:15:59,370 –> 00:16:00,260
I don’t even know what you’re doing.

377
00:16:00,260 –> 00:16:06,960
But I stayed upstairs and I had so much angry energy that I just started cleaning the house,

378
00:16:07,040 –> 00:16:16,740
I did the dishes and I was still angry so I started cleaning the kitchen and by the end of the night before we actually sat down and talked I had cleaned the entire first floor of our house,

379
00:16:16,750 –> 00:16:17,430
the kitchen,

380
00:16:17,430 –> 00:16:18,890
I had mopped all the floors,

381
00:16:18,890 –> 00:16:22,080
I had vacuumed the house was probably the cleanest it’s ever been.

382
00:16:22,090 –> 00:16:22,920
Thank you babe.

383
00:16:22,920 –> 00:16:25,390
And just so you know whoever is listening to this,

384
00:16:25,390 –> 00:16:25,950
my friends,

385
00:16:25,950 –> 00:16:29,400
I don’t incite brian to anger just because I want to get the house clean.

386
00:16:29,400 –> 00:16:34,320
So but I literally have mad cleaning skills just literally there you go.

387
00:16:34,330 –> 00:16:42,340
Oh but yeah the physiology of anger is something that we have to address and we have to deal with.

388
00:16:42,350 –> 00:16:47,330
So walking away is an important part of managing anger.

389
00:16:47,340 –> 00:16:49,720
What are some things you do when you’re feeling angry?

390
00:16:49,720 –> 00:16:51,760
How do you manage your anger?

391
00:16:51,770 –> 00:16:52,210
You know,

392
00:16:52,210 –> 00:16:55,260
I like the term unplugging versus walking away.

393
00:16:55,270 –> 00:16:55,550
Okay.

394
00:16:55,550 –> 00:16:55,740
Yeah,

395
00:16:55,740 –> 00:16:56,160
I like that.

396
00:16:56,170 –> 00:16:56,470
The,

397
00:16:56,480 –> 00:17:02,130
the idea of that is that you’re separating yourself from the conflict for a time.

398
00:17:02,130 –> 00:17:07,330
It’s not like I’m throwing up my hands and I’m walking out on or walking away from my spouse.

399
00:17:07,330 –> 00:17:10,370
Like the relationship is an important instead of just saying,

400
00:17:10,370 –> 00:17:10,590
hey,

401
00:17:10,590 –> 00:17:17,270
I’m going to just take some time and you’re not going to be mad at me while I’m unplugged because who am I going to be talking to?

402
00:17:17,270 –> 00:17:18,620
I’m not going to be calling up my,

403
00:17:18,630 –> 00:17:22,220
my girlfriends to complain about you or family members to complain.

404
00:17:22,230 –> 00:17:23,850
I’m going to be talking to jesus.

405
00:17:23,850 –> 00:17:25,030
And instead of saying,

406
00:17:25,030 –> 00:17:26,530
what’s wrong with brian?

407
00:17:26,540 –> 00:17:28,450
Hopefully I’m having the wherewithal to say,

408
00:17:28,450 –> 00:17:33,030
I want to look at myself and see how am I contributing to this conflict and what can we do to,

409
00:17:33,030 –> 00:17:34,360
to work things out?

410
00:17:34,360 –> 00:17:39,380
Because sometimes when you’re dealing with these kinds of conflicts where you’re getting really angry,

411
00:17:39,390 –> 00:17:40,900
the compromise,

412
00:17:40,910 –> 00:17:46,300
it’s never a good idea if you want to wear the brown shoes and I want to wear the black shoes,

413
00:17:46,310 –> 00:17:52,890
you just get one black shoe and one brown shoe and that’s what you’re going to be then wearing that just does it works.

414
00:17:52,890 –> 00:17:54,770
But the kids are always doing mismatched socks.

415
00:17:54,770 –> 00:17:55,740
You can’t do that with shoes.

416
00:17:55,740 –> 00:17:56,210
Well,

417
00:17:56,210 –> 00:17:57,400
I guess you can’t do that with shoes,

418
00:17:57,400 –> 00:17:58,930
but you can’t do that with socks.

419
00:17:58,940 –> 00:18:00,730
But in any event,

420
00:18:00,730 –> 00:18:06,670
sometimes you do have to come to a resolution where it’s not a one for one compromise for that.

421
00:18:06,670 –> 00:18:16,180
But I always like to have the attitude of how am I honoring God and what is going to then move the family forward in the best possible way in this conflict?

422
00:18:16,190 –> 00:18:17,570
I think the other thing too,

423
00:18:17,580 –> 00:18:21,000
when dealing with anger is it requires a lot of introspection.

424
00:18:21,000 –> 00:18:22,540
That requires a lot of prayer,

425
00:18:22,550 –> 00:18:23,950
but why am I angry?

426
00:18:23,960 –> 00:18:28,270
What is it that makes this so important?

427
00:18:28,340 –> 00:18:32,660
The answer to that is huge for who you are and that’s part of growing in holiness.

428
00:18:32,740 –> 00:18:35,070
AM I even right to be angry about this?

429
00:18:35,080 –> 00:18:37,200
Um so going back to my story at the beginning,

430
00:18:37,200 –> 00:18:37,350
right?

431
00:18:37,350 –> 00:18:37,840
About I mean,

432
00:18:37,840 –> 00:18:38,540
I can’t find things,

433
00:18:38,540 –> 00:18:41,520
especially when we’re trying to leave that’s not healthy.

434
00:18:41,530 –> 00:18:50,490
I know that I have anxiety about showing up late to things and I know that about myself better three hours early than one minute late.

435
00:18:50,490 –> 00:18:50,980
Right?

436
00:18:50,990 –> 00:18:51,360
Yes,

437
00:18:51,360 –> 00:18:52,190
absolutely.

438
00:18:52,920 –> 00:18:54,170
Oh my goodness.

439
00:18:54,180 –> 00:18:57,350
So what’s going to happen if I’m late,

440
00:18:57,360 –> 00:18:58,410
no one will die,

441
00:18:58,420 –> 00:18:59,060
No one will die.

442
00:18:59,070 –> 00:19:00,280
You’re not a surgeon.

443
00:19:00,280 –> 00:19:01,730
You’re not like a trauma surgeon?

444
00:19:01,740 –> 00:19:02,010
No.

445
00:19:02,010 –> 00:19:06,330
And really it comes down to fear of some sort of Reprisal?

446
00:19:06,330 –> 00:19:06,570
Right?

447
00:19:06,570 –> 00:19:09,480
It’s just this fear that I have that something bad is gonna happen.

448
00:19:09,490 –> 00:19:11,270
And that’s important when you’re dealing with anger to,

449
00:19:11,270 –> 00:19:13,280
we have to be able to unplug like you said.

450
00:19:13,280 –> 00:19:14,340
But we also have to,

451
00:19:14,340 –> 00:19:15,670
when we’re unplugging,

452
00:19:15,740 –> 00:19:18,140
we can’t unplug and just let it fester,

453
00:19:18,150 –> 00:19:18,510
right?

454
00:19:18,510 –> 00:19:24,930
We can unplug and make it worse and give the devil a foothold and give anger control of ourselves because oh my gosh.

455
00:19:24,940 –> 00:19:25,410
You know,

456
00:19:25,420 –> 00:19:30,790
if jen would just do this and this and this and then and I just replay this and rehash this,

457
00:19:30,800 –> 00:19:34,380
that’s not helpful at all.

458
00:19:34,390 –> 00:19:37,190
I need to really step back and why am I angry about this?

459
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:39,980
What is the root issue?

460
00:19:39,980 –> 00:19:45,530
And usually it has something to do with when we walk back and it’s something that I have a fear over.

461
00:19:45,530 –> 00:19:53,430
Are we not just me were afraid that the ultimate outcome is going to be something bad and this might be even some triggers for all of us,

462
00:19:53,440 –> 00:19:53,710
You know,

463
00:19:53,710 –> 00:19:59,080
did something happen when we were growing up or are these just kind of more preferences or predilections?

464
00:19:59,080 –> 00:20:02,820
But to just make sure you’re getting under control because like you had said,

465
00:20:02,830 –> 00:20:09,160
it’s like I’m getting angry because this particular issue is just so important and why is this so important?

466
00:20:09,170 –> 00:20:19,710
And then certainly the other spouse that seeing that is that issue just as important to the other spouse or is it not just kind of just trying to get more of an understanding together,

467
00:20:19,710 –> 00:20:23,110
and I think sometimes that can help diffuse the anger on both sides.

468
00:20:23,110 –> 00:20:24,950
It’s just like why is my spouse feeling this?

469
00:20:24,950 –> 00:20:27,050
And just try to talk it through and again,

470
00:20:27,050 –> 00:20:28,360
be honest about it,

471
00:20:28,440 –> 00:20:28,910
right,

472
00:20:28,920 –> 00:20:30,260
And that’s something to that,

473
00:20:30,260 –> 00:20:31,350
it’s important.

474
00:20:31,640 –> 00:20:36,370
Um We as individuals need to be able to manage our anger,

475
00:20:36,370 –> 00:20:38,360
but we as couples need to manage it to,

476
00:20:38,360 –> 00:20:38,730
right?

477
00:20:38,740 –> 00:20:44,710
It’s um if I know that this is something that’s key or important,

478
00:20:44,720 –> 00:20:47,670
then I need to be respectful of that too,

479
00:20:48,040 –> 00:20:49,750
because we talked a lot about,

480
00:20:49,750 –> 00:20:49,950
okay,

481
00:20:49,950 –> 00:20:50,590
this isn’t important,

482
00:20:50,590 –> 00:20:51,940
it’s not important in this podcast,

483
00:20:51,940 –> 00:20:54,550
but there are things that are really are important,

484
00:20:54,560 –> 00:20:55,380
and again,

485
00:20:55,390 –> 00:21:01,180
anger is not bad um life name,

486
00:21:01,190 –> 00:21:01,470
you know,

487
00:21:01,470 –> 00:21:01,970
things like that.

488
00:21:01,970 –> 00:21:13,510
If if I’m doing something that is going to ultimately have a significant negative impact on our health as a family,

489
00:21:13,510 –> 00:21:15,610
that doesn’t necessarily just mean physical health,

490
00:21:15,610 –> 00:21:23,070
but am I being irresponsible with how I’m taking care of our house or,

491
00:21:23,080 –> 00:21:23,540
you know,

492
00:21:23,540 –> 00:21:26,580
I’m not getting the oil changed in the car,

493
00:21:26,580 –> 00:21:26,840
okay?

494
00:21:26,840 –> 00:21:27,060
Mr.

495
00:21:27,060 –> 00:21:27,300
Election,

496
00:21:27,300 –> 00:21:27,730
that’s fine.

497
00:21:27,730 –> 00:21:34,930
But if that keeps going in the car breaks down and our daughter who terrifyingly is going to be getting ready to drive soon.

498
00:21:34,940 –> 00:21:36,570
That too terrifying.

499
00:21:36,580 –> 00:21:38,240
She’s a great driver,

500
00:21:38,250 –> 00:21:41,720
but being a dad and thinking about all the knuckleheads on the road,

501
00:21:41,730 –> 00:21:42,730
we learned very,

502
00:21:42,730 –> 00:21:44,870
very early on when she started driving.

503
00:21:44,880 –> 00:21:45,210
You know,

504
00:21:45,210 –> 00:21:46,860
just with us in the car that you know,

505
00:21:46,860 –> 00:21:49,390
that’s why Catholics keep rosaries in the car.

506
00:21:49,390 –> 00:21:49,880
But yes,

507
00:21:49,890 –> 00:21:50,440
yeah,

508
00:21:50,450 –> 00:21:51,910
just prayer,

509
00:21:51,910 –> 00:21:52,380
prayer,

510
00:21:52,380 –> 00:21:52,930
prayer,

511
00:21:52,930 –> 00:21:53,660
prayer manufacture.

512
00:21:53,660 –> 00:21:54,760
If you’re listening to this right now,

513
00:21:54,760 –> 00:21:55,860
pray for me,

514
00:21:56,040 –> 00:21:57,350
uh,

515
00:21:57,360 –> 00:21:59,820
we need prayers for all kinds of stuff there Bryant.

516
00:21:59,830 –> 00:22:06,390
But the point is if I’m not being responsible or the Children are being responsible with getting the oil change in the car,

517
00:22:06,390 –> 00:22:13,210
that’s a safety issue because if at some point that engine seizes when you’re doing 75 miles an hour on the freeway,

518
00:22:13,220 –> 00:22:16,500
that’s literally life or limb could be at jeopardy.

519
00:22:16,500 –> 00:22:27,680
But it’s also if we’re being foolish about finances and we’re putting our family in jeopardy and causing debt or taking things out of savings that probably need to,

520
00:22:27,690 –> 00:22:34,390
there are some things it’s okay to get angry about because the fear behind that is a real issue for the health of the family.

521
00:22:34,400 –> 00:22:39,680
But let’s also talk about just the idea of how far reaching anger can be because we’re talking about some,

522
00:22:39,680 –> 00:22:43,620
some anger that might be happening because something that happened in the family.

523
00:22:43,840 –> 00:22:44,620
But again,

524
00:22:44,620 –> 00:22:45,780
you can’t let that fester,

525
00:22:45,780 –> 00:22:51,410
you can’t marinate in that because I’ve even seen some things with families that I work with on,

526
00:22:51,410 –> 00:22:53,810
on the legal side of things where this,

527
00:22:53,820 –> 00:23:03,350
this adult woman was so angry about her sister stealing money from her mother and of course we’re going to be mad about something like that.

528
00:23:03,440 –> 00:23:05,410
But she let that anger so overtake her.

529
00:23:05,410 –> 00:23:10,100
It spilled over into her family life and her anger towards her sister spilled over into her.

530
00:23:10,100 –> 00:23:13,020
Then expressing anger being short tempered,

531
00:23:13,020 –> 00:23:16,800
being very prone to conflict then with her husband and kids.

532
00:23:16,800 –> 00:23:21,580
So we really need to make sure that that’s controlled anger isn’t too bad.

533
00:23:21,590 –> 00:23:23,850
But definitely it’s mishandled anger.

534
00:23:23,850 –> 00:23:26,470
And when we look at Ephesians with that advice,

535
00:23:26,480 –> 00:23:27,790
it needs to be dealt with quickly.

536
00:23:27,790 –> 00:23:33,340
Not necessarily in the moment because sometimes you need to unplug and deal with the physiology of it,

537
00:23:33,350 –> 00:23:34,170
dealing with our anger.

538
00:23:34,170 –> 00:23:38,370
We need to deal with the physiology but we need to make sure we’ve got control of our emotions,

539
00:23:38,370 –> 00:23:50,900
not our emotions controlling us and be aware of what is this thing that is causing her and make sure that we are dealing with our own issues and so that we could have healthy anger,

540
00:23:50,900 –> 00:23:52,150
not unhealthy anger,

541
00:23:52,160 –> 00:23:52,770
that’s it.

542
00:23:54,040 –> 00:23:57,010
We have another opportunity for you to help your marriage thrive.

543
00:23:57,020 –> 00:24:01,940
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544
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545
00:24:08,260 –> 00:24:11,410
We’ll talk about enhancing communication skills,

546
00:24:11,420 –> 00:24:14,260
conflict resolution and building intimacy in your marriage.

547
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548
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549
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550
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551
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552
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For more information.

553
00:24:27,470 –> 00:24:28,940
Contact us at our website,

554
00:24:28,950 –> 00:24:29,690
operation,

555
00:24:29,690 –> 00:24:31,130
thriving marriage.com.

556
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:36,560
We look forward to meeting you in person.

1
00:00:00,640 –> 00:00:01,440
a lot of times .

2
00:00:01,440 –> 00:00:14,230
You’re just that one awkward conversation or difficult conversation away from having that thriving marriage conflict is really there to strengthen your relationship when it’s handled the right way .

3
00:00:14,240 –> 00:00:16,420
And it’s so funny too because people want that ,

4
00:00:16,420 –> 00:00:18,550
but they’re afraid of the outcome .

5
00:00:19,340 –> 00:00:22,430
You may be one choice away from a thriving marriage .

6
00:00:22,440 –> 00:00:23,730
Welcome to the operation ,

7
00:00:23,730 –> 00:00:26,460
thriving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer .

8
00:00:26,460 –> 00:00:28,980
Harvey sweetheart .

9
00:00:28,990 –> 00:00:29,740
How’s it going ?

10
00:00:29,740 –> 00:00:33,060
We’re in the studio for the first time for our first operation ,

11
00:00:33,060 –> 00:00:34,370
thriving marriage podcast .

12
00:00:34,370 –> 00:00:35,010
You ready for this ?

13
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Yeah ,

14
00:00:35,400 –> 00:00:36,700
this is an awesome kind of thing .

15
00:00:36,700 –> 00:00:38,040
So shout out to Todd ,

16
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our producer and so excited to be recording our first ever podcast and we’re here and we’re talking about conflict resolution .

17
00:00:45,840 –> 00:00:50,930
We’re starting this out and we’re doing we’re talking about conflict because that’s like one of the most common things in marriage .

18
00:00:50,940 –> 00:00:52,750
But when you think about being a lawyer ,

19
00:00:52,750 –> 00:00:53,830
you deal with conflict .

20
00:00:53,830 –> 00:00:55,490
That’s your job is resolving conflict .

21
00:00:55,490 –> 00:00:55,980
That’s it .

22
00:00:55,980 –> 00:00:57,450
At least we do our best to resolve .

23
00:00:57,450 –> 00:00:57,690
Right ?

24
00:00:57,700 –> 00:00:58,500
So ,

25
00:00:58,510 –> 00:01:02,620
but what are some of the common boy bad conflict resolution techniques ?

26
00:01:02,620 –> 00:01:06,990
You’ve seen her have a story about something that just went totally off the rails .

27
00:01:07,000 –> 00:01:07,830
Oh my gosh ,

28
00:01:07,830 –> 00:01:10,730
this was probably one of the craziest things .

29
00:01:10,730 –> 00:01:13,550
I had been about seven years in practice or so .

30
00:01:13,560 –> 00:01:24,360
And I was representing a gentleman on a divorce case and myself and this gentleman and my opposing counsel and the wife had just appeared before .

31
00:01:24,360 –> 00:01:34,360
The judge just told the judge on the record that my client had some vision impairment that was very significant in his right eye And then we go out into the hallway .

32
00:01:34,370 –> 00:01:53,670
The other attorney wasn’t happy with what the judge was ruling about his client because we did better that day and my client starts walking away after me and he accidentally bumps into this other attorney and legitimately did not see him because of his vision impairment .

33
00:01:53,680 –> 00:02:06,330
So this attorney gets mad and starts literally chasing him down the hallway and gets right up in his face and I’m talking like eight inches away from the guy’s face and I had the wherewithal .

34
00:02:06,330 –> 00:02:06,600
You know ,

35
00:02:06,600 –> 00:02:11,260
I’m a woman who’s five ft 10 to slip in between because it’s like ,

36
00:02:11,260 –> 00:02:11,530
hey ,

37
00:02:11,530 –> 00:02:13,450
are you going to take a swing at me .

38
00:02:13,540 –> 00:02:22,610
So that was a very bad idea in the judge’s court officer ran out in the hallway and gave this other attorney a good talking to .

39
00:02:22,610 –> 00:02:23,490
But these guys all ,

40
00:02:23,500 –> 00:02:24,180
hey ,

41
00:02:24,180 –> 00:02:26,910
okay by the flagpole after school .

42
00:02:26,910 –> 00:02:27,670
That’s it .

43
00:02:27,680 –> 00:02:28,940
Something like that .

44
00:02:28,940 –> 00:02:29,330
But you know ,

45
00:02:29,330 –> 00:02:34,720
you got a court officer in the hallway with a badge and a gun so that I think helped de escalate things .

46
00:02:34,720 –> 00:02:45,700
But just what an unprofessional thing on the part of this attorney and this attorney actually ended up leaving the case and had another attorney who was with a different practice step on because he was ,

47
00:02:45,700 –> 00:02:47,790
I think just so embarrassed and you know ,

48
00:02:47,790 –> 00:02:52,620
what would have happened had I been in court the next time and relate that story to the judge .

49
00:02:52,620 –> 00:02:55,690
So you just don’t do those kinds of things .

50
00:02:55,690 –> 00:02:55,840
Yeah .

51
00:02:55,840 –> 00:03:01,570
And I mean obviously conflict escalating to throwing hands is not where we want to go ,

52
00:03:01,570 –> 00:03:03,660
especially when we talk about marriage .

53
00:03:04,040 –> 00:03:06,320
You and I have talked about this a lot .

54
00:03:06,330 –> 00:03:07,990
And obviously we ,

55
00:03:07,990 –> 00:03:08,340
we’ve ,

56
00:03:08,350 –> 00:03:09,800
we’ve had conflicts .

57
00:03:09,810 –> 00:03:11,090
Not like that .

58
00:03:11,090 –> 00:03:11,490
No ,

59
00:03:11,500 –> 00:03:11,800
no ,

60
00:03:11,810 –> 00:03:13,050
no one’s throwing hands .

61
00:03:13,060 –> 00:03:14,000
That’s for sure ,

62
00:03:14,010 –> 00:03:15,570
conflicts happen in marriage .

63
00:03:15,570 –> 00:03:15,940
It’s just ,

64
00:03:15,950 –> 00:03:17,850
it’s a normal thing .

65
00:03:17,860 –> 00:03:18,820
Sure .

66
00:03:18,830 –> 00:03:19,360
You know ,

67
00:03:19,360 –> 00:03:20,650
when we’ve talked to couples ,

68
00:03:20,650 –> 00:03:22,790
especially when we’ve done like premarital counseling ,

69
00:03:22,790 –> 00:03:23,260
right ?

70
00:03:23,270 –> 00:03:30,420
They’ve got the stars in their eyes and they’re doing premarital counseling because the pastor just won’t marry them until they do this .

71
00:03:30,420 –> 00:03:31,470
It’s just a requirement .

72
00:03:31,470 –> 00:03:31,840
But it’s like ,

73
00:03:31,840 –> 00:03:32,030
yeah ,

74
00:03:32,030 –> 00:03:34,180
we don’t really need this were perfect .

75
00:03:34,180 –> 00:03:38,810
We’ve got the perfect relationship and we get to conflict and well ,

76
00:03:38,810 –> 00:03:40,460
we never have conflict .

77
00:03:41,040 –> 00:03:42,880
But lack of conflict is bad ,

78
00:03:42,880 –> 00:03:43,360
isn’t it ?

79
00:03:43,370 –> 00:03:43,930
Oh ,

80
00:03:43,930 –> 00:03:53,060
I’d say that’s absolutely the case because that means that you’re not expressing yourself and putting out what your opinions are and what’s going on .

81
00:03:53,060 –> 00:03:55,170
And I’m not talking about petty stuff .

82
00:03:55,180 –> 00:04:02,540
You might be putting a cloak over who you really are and just how you would be dealing with different issues .

83
00:04:02,540 –> 00:04:09,860
So conflict I think is a very healthy thing because we’re unique individuals and we have different needs .

84
00:04:09,860 –> 00:04:11,290
We have different goals .

85
00:04:11,290 –> 00:04:21,130
We have different desires and we need to make sure that we’re not downplaying who we are to just blend into a relationship because that’s not healthy .

86
00:04:21,140 –> 00:04:21,410
Yeah ,

87
00:04:21,420 –> 00:04:25,140
we’re going to talk about expectations in another podcast .

88
00:04:25,140 –> 00:04:25,750
But even to ,

89
00:04:25,750 –> 00:04:27,600
I think with the petty stuff ,

90
00:04:27,610 –> 00:04:29,410
you got to make sure you’re defining what’s petty ,

91
00:04:29,410 –> 00:04:29,980
right ?

92
00:04:29,990 –> 00:04:30,730
That’s true .

93
00:04:30,740 –> 00:04:31,000
I mean ,

94
00:04:31,000 –> 00:04:34,060
some things may be a big deal .

95
00:04:34,070 –> 00:04:35,250
We talk in the book ,

96
00:04:35,260 –> 00:04:35,470
you know ,

97
00:04:35,470 –> 00:04:37,800
the whole toothpaste illustration we use in the book where ,

98
00:04:37,800 –> 00:04:38,070
okay ,

99
00:04:38,070 –> 00:04:45,280
that to me isn’t a major issue because it just takes me extra time to for those who have read the book ,

100
00:04:45,290 –> 00:04:47,040
jen squeezes the toothpaste from the middle .

101
00:04:47,040 –> 00:04:47,910
She doesn’t wrong .

102
00:04:47,910 –> 00:04:52,150
And I allow her to do that and I didn’t find out this was ,

103
00:04:52,240 –> 00:04:52,590
you know ,

104
00:04:52,590 –> 00:04:56,120
even something that crossed brian’s mind until I read the first draft of the book ,

105
00:04:56,120 –> 00:04:57,050
another issue .

106
00:04:57,060 –> 00:04:57,740
So I mean ,

107
00:04:57,750 –> 00:04:58,690
communication stuff ,

108
00:04:58,690 –> 00:04:59,180
right ?

109
00:04:59,190 –> 00:04:59,880
Yes ,

110
00:04:59,890 –> 00:05:00,810
communication went .

111
00:05:00,820 –> 00:05:04,620
But I mean the whole squeezing the toothpaste from the middle or the bottom that that’s not the biggest ,

112
00:05:04,620 –> 00:05:07,600
but there could be other things that maybe ,

113
00:05:07,600 –> 00:05:13,480
I mean we had this issue before we hung the hook up where we put our keys where keys were getting lost all the time .

114
00:05:13,490 –> 00:05:15,530
And that could be petty .

115
00:05:15,540 –> 00:05:16,650
And at first it’s like ,

116
00:05:16,660 –> 00:05:17,120
well ,

117
00:05:17,130 –> 00:05:20,760
just just remember where you put the keys and just when I asked where the keys are ,

118
00:05:20,760 –> 00:05:21,220
just tell me ,

119
00:05:21,230 –> 00:05:26,010
but that became something that was important enough for us to do something about it really .

120
00:05:26,010 –> 00:05:28,560
We talked about this a lot um in the book ,

121
00:05:28,940 –> 00:05:33,160
conflict is important because what marriage is ,

122
00:05:33,540 –> 00:05:33,960
you know ,

123
00:05:33,970 –> 00:05:37,520
the purpose of marriage isn’t for people just to be happy .

124
00:05:37,530 –> 00:05:42,980
Happiness is a horrible goal for a marriage because happiness is just fleeting .

125
00:05:42,990 –> 00:05:43,640
It just kind of ,

126
00:05:43,650 –> 00:05:47,090
it comes and goes and so we talked about three purposes for marriage ,

127
00:05:47,090 –> 00:05:48,970
experiencing mature ,

128
00:05:48,970 –> 00:05:54,850
fulfilling love growing to be more like jesus and representing God to the people around us .

129
00:05:55,340 –> 00:05:58,490
Sometimes I don’t do that well and sometimes I need ,

130
00:05:58,500 –> 00:06:05,310
I need you to to point out to me where I’m not doing these things and of course that’s going to lead to conflict ,

131
00:06:05,310 –> 00:06:05,750
isn’t it ?

132
00:06:06,140 –> 00:06:06,980
It sure is .

133
00:06:06,980 –> 00:06:12,740
And I mean I I throw a mia culpa for for these things to I’m certainly not perfect in any of this .

134
00:06:12,750 –> 00:06:15,730
We’re both just on the journey to ,

135
00:06:15,740 –> 00:06:23,530
to be more like jesus and I think that each of us can be that that tool to sharpen the other .

136
00:06:23,540 –> 00:06:33,560
We do want to make sure that we’re fulfilling that purpose of marriage and living that out to just grow to be more like God and you don’t always get there in the prettiest kinds of ways .

137
00:06:33,840 –> 00:06:34,270
Exactly .

138
00:06:34,270 –> 00:06:34,590
I mean ,

139
00:06:34,600 –> 00:06:36,070
conflict is never comfortable .

140
00:06:36,080 –> 00:06:39,740
The people that like conflict just like argument .

141
00:06:39,740 –> 00:06:41,660
They like the adrenaline rush or something .

142
00:06:41,670 –> 00:06:42,000
It’s like ,

143
00:06:42,010 –> 00:06:43,540
it’s their version of a roller coaster ,

144
00:06:43,540 –> 00:06:44,860
that conflict isn’t pleasant .

145
00:06:44,860 –> 00:06:45,360
It’s not fun ,

146
00:06:45,360 –> 00:06:46,350
but it’s important .

147
00:06:46,360 –> 00:06:47,700
I’d say in a marriage certainly ,

148
00:06:47,700 –> 00:06:50,400
I mean talk about my profession another time ,

149
00:06:50,400 –> 00:06:53,920
just some attorneys and there can be some strategy and some things like that .

150
00:06:53,920 –> 00:06:56,300
But certainly the interpersonal relationships .

151
00:06:56,310 –> 00:06:57,900
It’s not about gamesmanship .

152
00:06:57,900 –> 00:07:00,160
It’s about acting as that team together .

153
00:07:00,440 –> 00:07:00,700
Yeah ,

154
00:07:00,710 –> 00:07:01,100
absolutely .

155
00:07:01,100 –> 00:07:03,980
I mean a marriage isn’t a lawsuit here is different .

156
00:07:03,990 –> 00:07:07,090
This is by its very nature adversarial ,

157
00:07:07,100 –> 00:07:08,430
but marriages aren’t adversarial .

158
00:07:08,430 –> 00:07:09,730
There’s just conflict .

159
00:07:09,740 –> 00:07:11,170
If there’s not conflict ,

160
00:07:11,180 –> 00:07:14,250
then someone isn’t being honest .

161
00:07:14,260 –> 00:07:19,620
Someone is either just hiding their personality or over doing the submission aspect ,

162
00:07:19,620 –> 00:07:19,960
right ?

163
00:07:20,040 –> 00:07:20,580
Oh sure .

164
00:07:20,580 –> 00:07:23,350
And on either side and I love you Pat Benatar ,

165
00:07:23,350 –> 00:07:25,350
but love should not be a battlefield .

166
00:07:25,440 –> 00:07:29,580
But we should have had our son who plays drums in here to help out with the rim shots .

167
00:07:29,590 –> 00:07:33,150
Conflict isn’t bad mishandled conflict .

168
00:07:33,150 –> 00:07:34,220
I think that’s the problem .

169
00:07:34,230 –> 00:07:40,270
And I think when we talk to couples and when you talk to people who are dealing with conflict and they want to avoid it .

170
00:07:40,280 –> 00:07:42,230
It’s not the conflict they want to avoid .

171
00:07:42,240 –> 00:07:44,460
It’s the mishandled conflict .

172
00:07:44,940 –> 00:07:53,730
I think that’s true because I think that there’s a misnomer that when I bring up an issue and I get to the other side of that with this person ,

173
00:07:53,730 –> 00:07:55,390
it’s for sure going to be worse .

174
00:07:55,390 –> 00:08:12,440
And that’s not true because a lot of times you’re just that one awkward conversation or difficult conversation away from having that thriving marriage and that conflict is really there to strengthen your relationship when it’s handled the right way .

175
00:08:12,450 –> 00:08:12,760
Yeah .

176
00:08:12,770 –> 00:08:21,900
It’s that choice to that one choice you need to make and it’s so funny too because people want that but they’re afraid of the outcome they’re afraid of ,

177
00:08:21,910 –> 00:08:23,740
oh this is just going to get worse .

178
00:08:23,740 –> 00:08:27,560
But sometimes you’re feeling bad because things aren’t resolved .

179
00:08:27,560 –> 00:08:33,770
There’s an issue you’re dealing with that’s not coming up and mishandled conflict when we call it mishandled conflict ,

180
00:08:33,770 –> 00:08:36,890
what we mean is conflict isn’t resolved appropriately .

181
00:08:36,900 –> 00:08:40,780
And so like a conflict that you’ve tried to resolve it ,

182
00:08:40,790 –> 00:08:42,800
but it became angry ,

183
00:08:42,800 –> 00:08:44,120
it became okay ,

184
00:08:44,130 –> 00:08:46,970
fine your way and then you stomp off .

185
00:08:46,980 –> 00:08:50,820
It’s something that there was not an agreement between us .

186
00:08:50,830 –> 00:08:54,310
It was just either I’m gonna demand my rights ,

187
00:08:54,310 –> 00:09:02,780
I’m gonna demand what I want or I’m going to say this isn’t important enough to me and I’m just gonna walk away and when you say this isn’t important enough to me ,

188
00:09:02,790 –> 00:09:04,400
what you’re saying to your spouse’s ,

189
00:09:04,410 –> 00:09:09,600
you’re not important enough to me to deal with this or at least that’s how the spouse is going to receive it .

190
00:09:09,600 –> 00:09:11,680
That might not actually be the case .

191
00:09:11,690 –> 00:09:19,420
But don’t say something like that because it certainly could communicate that to your spouse and to me very likely would communicate that to your spouse .

192
00:09:19,430 –> 00:09:21,520
Message sent is not message received .

193
00:09:21,530 –> 00:09:23,800
You send a message that you meant one thing ,

194
00:09:23,800 –> 00:09:26,380
but the message received is totally opposite .

195
00:09:26,380 –> 00:09:28,910
Are certainly not what you intended ?

196
00:09:28,920 –> 00:09:30,880
How then do we resolve conflict ?

197
00:09:30,880 –> 00:09:35,950
Well what are the keys to resolving conflict in a positive way .

198
00:09:36,240 –> 00:09:36,470
Well ,

199
00:09:36,470 –> 00:09:37,780
I think between the two of us ,

200
00:09:37,780 –> 00:09:40,450
we we’ve really come up with a few principles ,

201
00:09:40,460 –> 00:09:57,910
which is be kind and be clear and be present as you’re handling that and kindness friends that that really connects us up as being one of those fruits of the spirit that paul outlines in Galatians 5 22 .

202
00:09:57,920 –> 00:10:00,470
Just approaching things from saying ,

203
00:10:00,480 –> 00:10:02,710
we’re on a team together ,

204
00:10:02,720 –> 00:10:04,960
we rise or fall together .

205
00:10:04,960 –> 00:10:10,440
And even when you see basketball players who might not get along well off the court ,

206
00:10:10,440 –> 00:10:24,240
they’re acting as that unit together for the good of the team and doing well and winning championships and they’re not going to be able to do that if they’re not playing the way that they need to and taking care of each other and having each other’s backs on the court .

207
00:10:24,240 –> 00:10:26,700
Certainly it’s the same kind of thing with marriage ,

208
00:10:26,700 –> 00:10:27,460
but kindness ,

209
00:10:27,460 –> 00:10:37,790
I think really rules too into being able to speak to the heart of your spouse and show them that you’re you’re for them well .

210
00:10:37,790 –> 00:10:39,700
And being nice isn’t being weak .

211
00:10:39,710 –> 00:10:44,110
And I think at least on some ways that masculinity is perceived to present it right ,

212
00:10:44,110 –> 00:10:46,010
is if you’re being nice ,

213
00:10:46,020 –> 00:10:47,630
you’re being submissive .

214
00:10:47,640 –> 00:10:48,140
And I mean ,

215
00:10:48,140 –> 00:10:59,480
we see that a lot in movies and tv shows the macho man is the one who I’ve got control of the situation and they’re just kind of a jerk kind of the anti hero that’s so popular in movies ,

216
00:10:59,480 –> 00:11:00,100
like Yeah ,

217
00:11:00,110 –> 00:11:02,440
that person killed the bad guys or whatever ,

218
00:11:02,450 –> 00:11:04,200
but there were a jerk in the process .

219
00:11:04,210 –> 00:11:06,880
There’s so many different anti heroes out there in movies .

220
00:11:06,890 –> 00:11:08,280
But being nice isn’t being weak .

221
00:11:08,290 –> 00:11:13,470
It’s strength because you don’t need to assert yourself to get to the conclusion .

222
00:11:13,470 –> 00:11:17,560
That’s best in the marriage and you can be strong and be kind at the same time .

223
00:11:17,560 –> 00:11:24,670
I think that’s certainly the case outside of marriage is as well as inside marriage is when you’re dealing with resolving a conflict .

224
00:11:24,680 –> 00:11:29,180
But that’s why these movies with the anti heroes that’s why they’re fiction ,

225
00:11:29,180 –> 00:11:29,440
right ?

226
00:11:29,440 –> 00:11:38,170
It’s a script and I think it takes more strength in a conflict to do what you need to do to have that self control and to exercise that kindness .

227
00:11:38,180 –> 00:11:43,060
It’s certainly not weakness because I think it’s a lot easier for people to just blow up on each other .

228
00:11:43,240 –> 00:11:45,660
Well and also it’s just frankly a good idea .

229
00:11:45,740 –> 00:11:49,690
I mean proverbs 15 1 a gentle response turns away anger ,

230
00:11:49,690 –> 00:11:51,570
but a harsh word stirs up wrath .

231
00:11:51,580 –> 00:11:59,360
If you and I are talking and I’m an upset and if I come at you like I mean throwing the knife hand and putting all the old crusty N .

232
00:11:59,360 –> 00:11:59,580
C .

233
00:11:59,580 –> 00:11:59,720
O .

234
00:11:59,720 –> 00:12:00,170
Attitude ,

235
00:12:00,170 –> 00:12:02,890
you will you will you will and I just come in that attitude .

236
00:12:02,900 –> 00:12:13,070
But automatically you have no desire to work with me at that point because I just completely shut you down and put you in a situation where now you want to defend yourself because I’ve attacked you know ,

237
00:12:13,070 –> 00:12:17,130
in the natural responsive when you’re attacked is defend yourself because you’d have to right ?

238
00:12:17,130 –> 00:12:17,340
Yeah ,

239
00:12:17,350 –> 00:12:19,030
it’s just when we’re talking ,

240
00:12:19,040 –> 00:12:20,490
I mean when you’re kind ,

241
00:12:20,490 –> 00:12:21,560
when you consider it ,

242
00:12:21,570 –> 00:12:24,350
it’s just it’s just a good idea .

243
00:12:24,350 –> 00:12:28,750
It just makes sense because the goal isn’t to get your way ,

244
00:12:29,140 –> 00:12:31,500
the goal is to have a stronger marriage .

245
00:12:31,510 –> 00:12:32,030
Again ,

246
00:12:32,030 –> 00:12:36,750
this choice is to have a thriving marriage so that we are experiencing that fulfilling love ,

247
00:12:36,760 –> 00:12:38,780
being more like jesus and representing God ,

248
00:12:38,790 –> 00:12:44,020
it’s all about living a holy life and this conversation ,

249
00:12:44,020 –> 00:12:44,820
this conflict ,

250
00:12:44,830 –> 00:12:48,740
ultimately we want to get out of it being more holy than we were before the conflict started .

251
00:12:48,750 –> 00:12:49,260
That’s it .

252
00:12:49,270 –> 00:12:50,160
Absolutely .

253
00:12:50,170 –> 00:12:53,970
And I’d say it’s kind of taking this to the second point of being able to be clear ,

254
00:12:53,980 –> 00:12:57,160
shout out to the women because of the stereotype of ,

255
00:12:57,160 –> 00:12:57,390
you know ,

256
00:12:57,390 –> 00:12:59,340
my man should be able to read my mind ,

257
00:12:59,340 –> 00:13:00,600
and that’s just not true .

258
00:13:00,600 –> 00:13:10,550
You have to communicate clearly just as to what the conflict is and what your goals are and what you want to have done and see what you can do to to communicate that out .

259
00:13:10,550 –> 00:13:12,550
So just blinding clarity .

260
00:13:12,560 –> 00:13:13,070
Absolutely .

261
00:13:13,070 –> 00:13:14,740
And my dad used to joke around ,

262
00:13:14,750 –> 00:13:14,970
like ,

263
00:13:14,970 –> 00:13:15,920
don’t drop hints ,

264
00:13:15,920 –> 00:13:17,570
I’m not smart enough to pick them up ,

265
00:13:17,580 –> 00:13:18,380
and that’s true of me .

266
00:13:18,380 –> 00:13:18,630
I mean ,

267
00:13:18,640 –> 00:13:20,120
if you’re dropping the hint is like ,

268
00:13:20,120 –> 00:13:20,240
well ,

269
00:13:20,240 –> 00:13:21,180
what’s that on the floor ?

270
00:13:21,190 –> 00:13:22,610
I’m not going to pick it up ,

271
00:13:22,610 –> 00:13:26,490
I’m just not smart enough and it’s also got to be language though ,

272
00:13:26,500 –> 00:13:27,950
that they understand .

273
00:13:28,140 –> 00:13:30,080
We can get in our conversations .

274
00:13:30,080 –> 00:13:32,080
There’s often times when I’ve had to tell you ,

275
00:13:32,080 –> 00:13:32,990
okay sweetheart ,

276
00:13:32,990 –> 00:13:34,810
stop that entire sentence .

277
00:13:34,810 –> 00:13:42,220
You just said re say it because you used a bunch of legal stuff or use the words that I just don’t know what those words mean .

278
00:13:42,230 –> 00:13:42,880
And so I need ,

279
00:13:42,890 –> 00:13:46,500
so we need to make sure we’re using language because I can do the same thing .

280
00:13:46,500 –> 00:13:46,710
Right ?

281
00:13:46,710 –> 00:13:50,240
When I get into my military jargon and start using all the acronyms .

282
00:13:50,250 –> 00:13:51,160
Okay ,

283
00:13:51,240 –> 00:13:53,560
you can set an entire sentence without a whole word brian .

284
00:13:53,560 –> 00:13:55,560
You need to define every one of those things .

285
00:13:55,560 –> 00:14:01,640
So part of clarity is making sure we’re using the words that each other nose and depending on your job ,

286
00:14:01,640 –> 00:14:03,650
depending on how you grew up .

287
00:14:03,660 –> 00:14:09,280
Sometimes we’ve got friends who the wife is jamaican and I’m making up this illustration .

288
00:14:09,280 –> 00:14:09,820
They didn’t tell me this ,

289
00:14:09,820 –> 00:14:17,210
but I could see if she was using some jamaican idioms or something that her husband who is american from the midwest would be like ,

290
00:14:17,220 –> 00:14:17,610
yeah ,

291
00:14:17,610 –> 00:14:19,400
I don’t know what any of that means .

292
00:14:19,400 –> 00:14:22,720
We’ve got to be clear and our backgrounds are going to be different .

293
00:14:22,720 –> 00:14:25,050
We’re going to have different words that mean different things .

294
00:14:25,340 –> 00:14:27,220
I think that that’s absolutely the case .

295
00:14:27,220 –> 00:14:35,850
And I think just in addition to clarity um when we’re able to be there and be present were not checked out on our phones .

296
00:14:35,860 –> 00:14:36,150
Um ,

297
00:14:36,150 –> 00:14:40,240
we’re not checked out by watching a tv show .

298
00:14:40,250 –> 00:14:40,680
Um ,

299
00:14:40,680 –> 00:14:51,950
we’re not busy with kids or cooking something that’s really complex or busy with something that requires a whole lot of attention .

300
00:14:52,140 –> 00:14:52,420
Um ,

301
00:14:52,420 –> 00:15:02,630
we really have to make sure that we’re there and we’re present for our spouse just as we’re having these more difficult or more awkward conversations and efforts to try to resolve the conflict ,

302
00:15:02,640 –> 00:15:05,470
not just be physically mentally and emotionally present .

303
00:15:05,470 –> 00:15:08,130
We’ve also got to handle conflicts in the present tense .

304
00:15:08,180 –> 00:15:13,460
The conflict that you’re having is that conflict not what happened 6 ,

305
00:15:13,460 –> 00:15:13,940
12 ,

306
00:15:13,950 –> 00:15:19,930
18 months ago with this boyfriend or girlfriend you had in high school or whatever it is .

307
00:15:19,940 –> 00:15:21,210
I can’t talk about that .

308
00:15:21,210 –> 00:15:21,350
No ,

309
00:15:21,350 –> 00:15:21,660
we’re not ,

310
00:15:21,660 –> 00:15:24,120
we’re not going to talk about that conflicts again .

311
00:15:24,120 –> 00:15:24,890
The President ,

312
00:15:24,900 –> 00:15:29,070
the president has done because I mean it’s not beneficial .

313
00:15:29,070 –> 00:15:29,580
It’s not helpful .

314
00:15:29,580 –> 00:15:33,560
And also you don’t want to anticipate future conflicts ,

315
00:15:33,640 –> 00:15:34,580
let’s not presume .

316
00:15:34,590 –> 00:15:35,150
Oh ,

317
00:15:35,160 –> 00:15:35,890
this is your ,

318
00:15:35,900 –> 00:15:38,770
I know you’re going to do this because this is just the way you are ,

319
00:15:38,780 –> 00:15:42,020
the conflicts that you’re having is has to be in the present tense .

320
00:15:42,020 –> 00:15:44,700
It can’t be in any other situation .

321
00:15:44,700 –> 00:15:46,180
We can talk about the past or the future .

322
00:15:46,180 –> 00:15:49,190
You can talk about what’s going on right now and deal with that conflict .

323
00:15:49,190 –> 00:15:57,050
You can talk about the future tense conflict because I think there’s a tom cruise movie saying you can’t punish people for crimes that were very confident they’ll commit in the future ,

324
00:15:57,050 –> 00:15:57,750
we’re just ,

325
00:15:57,760 –> 00:16:00,080
we’re just going to deal with what we got right now .

326
00:16:00,080 –> 00:16:01,110
And uh ,

327
00:16:01,120 –> 00:16:05,380
hopefully some adjustments can be made so that there wouldn’t be other conflicts in the future .

328
00:16:05,390 –> 00:16:11,070
And also being present means allowing each other space to engage in the conversation .

329
00:16:11,080 –> 00:16:12,230
Dialogues ,

330
00:16:12,230 –> 00:16:13,520
resolve conflicts ,

331
00:16:13,530 –> 00:16:14,710
not monologues .

332
00:16:14,800 –> 00:16:18,300
I’m a theater person and brian is as well .

333
00:16:18,300 –> 00:16:25,040
So we want to make sure we don’t do that monologue presentation or monster log if it gets too big and ugly ,

334
00:16:25,040 –> 00:16:25,390
right ?

335
00:16:25,400 –> 00:16:28,000
It’s a conversation for our friends who love theater .

336
00:16:28,000 –> 00:16:31,120
I mean everyone loves to see a good monologue in a Shakespearean play .

337
00:16:31,120 –> 00:16:34,740
No one loves to listen to their spouse monologue about all the stuff they’ve screwed up .

338
00:16:34,750 –> 00:16:35,540
Ouch ,

339
00:16:35,550 –> 00:16:37,670
how about I do a monologue and all the things you do ,

340
00:16:37,670 –> 00:16:38,270
right babe .

341
00:16:38,280 –> 00:16:38,460
Yeah ,

342
00:16:38,460 –> 00:16:39,180
we can go with that .

343
00:16:39,180 –> 00:16:40,290
Let’s plan that after this .

344
00:16:40,290 –> 00:16:45,270
I like that conflict is so important in marriage .

345
00:16:45,280 –> 00:16:45,700
It’s just ,

346
00:16:45,710 –> 00:16:53,160
it really is because there’s a pastor that we met down in texas a couple months ago and I love the way he describes marriage ,

347
00:16:53,170 –> 00:16:53,730
tim ross ,

348
00:16:53,730 –> 00:16:55,220
shout out to tim ross if you’re listening .

349
00:16:55,230 –> 00:17:05,520
Um because he describes marriage as your spouse is you outside of you looking at you telling you about you and the purpose ultimately is for us to be more holy .

350
00:17:05,530 –> 00:17:08,160
And I am really good at lying to myself .

351
00:17:08,240 –> 00:17:12,870
I’m really good at thinking I am the greatest at whatever or I’m really good at hiding .

352
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:13,160
Hey ,

353
00:17:13,160 –> 00:17:14,110
I know I’m not good at that ,

354
00:17:14,110 –> 00:17:15,600
but I’m good at covering it up to myself ,

355
00:17:15,610 –> 00:17:22,580
but jen is really good at pointing out to me where I’m lying to myself and I need her to do that because that’s where holiness comes .

356
00:17:22,580 –> 00:17:27,560
That’s where we grow to be more like jesus by having someone tell us when we’re not doing what we’re supposed to be doing .

357
00:17:27,740 –> 00:17:30,590
I think that that’s the case and I got your back on that babe .

358
00:17:30,590 –> 00:17:31,660
But also ,

359
00:17:31,660 –> 00:17:31,970
you know ,

360
00:17:31,970 –> 00:17:32,260
you ,

361
00:17:32,270 –> 00:17:33,780
you will come to me and say ,

362
00:17:33,780 –> 00:17:34,200
hey ,

363
00:17:34,200 –> 00:17:34,490
you know ,

364
00:17:34,490 –> 00:17:41,890
this is something that you’re not doing well here and you’re not bursting into a conversation screaming at me about it ever .

365
00:17:41,890 –> 00:17:42,060
You’re ,

366
00:17:42,060 –> 00:17:42,360
you’re ,

367
00:17:42,370 –> 00:17:43,140
you’re just kind of like ,

368
00:17:43,140 –> 00:17:43,370
hey ,

369
00:17:43,370 –> 00:17:44,200
I got to talk to ,

370
00:17:44,200 –> 00:17:48,480
I’m going to pull you aside and just let you know that this wasn’t handled well and ,

371
00:17:48,480 –> 00:17:49,450
and here’s why ,

372
00:17:49,450 –> 00:17:50,270
and you know what ,

373
00:17:50,270 –> 00:17:53,160
what can we do to work this out and figure this out ?

374
00:17:53,170 –> 00:18:08,170
Because I don’t think any spouses are going into to a marriage relationship or people who are christians are not trying to live their lives in such a way where they want to contradict christ or live in such a way that it isn’t the best thing that he would want to have for us ,

375
00:18:08,170 –> 00:18:10,410
but just as we slip up and make mistakes that ,

376
00:18:10,420 –> 00:18:12,550
that just gentle confrontation ,

377
00:18:12,560 –> 00:18:13,050
um ,

378
00:18:13,050 –> 00:18:16,860
is great and I always say confrontation is not a condemnation .

379
00:18:17,040 –> 00:18:22,050
It’s very much something that we need to confront each other in love ,

380
00:18:22,050 –> 00:18:25,610
being that spouse that has each other’s backs and it’s never comfortable .

381
00:18:25,620 –> 00:18:25,920
I mean ,

382
00:18:25,930 –> 00:18:27,080
you don’t like me coming to say ,

383
00:18:27,080 –> 00:18:28,470
hey jen this is what’s going on .

384
00:18:28,470 –> 00:18:37,410
And I’m always feeling anxiety when I do it because there’s always the chance that I’m going to come at this the wrong way or you’re going to receive it in a way that’s going to make it not a positive thing .

385
00:18:37,410 –> 00:18:38,260
And let’s be honest ,

386
00:18:38,260 –> 00:18:39,370
that happens sometimes ,

387
00:18:39,370 –> 00:18:39,800
right ?

388
00:18:39,810 –> 00:18:44,500
It’s better in the long run when we get through it were closer to each other ,

389
00:18:44,500 –> 00:18:46,860
we’re closer to God because we were able to do that .

390
00:18:47,440 –> 00:18:49,180
So as we just wrap up today ,

391
00:18:49,190 –> 00:18:54,370
I think the big things we we want you to remember is the choice to have that conflict .

392
00:18:54,380 –> 00:18:58,340
Is that choice you may need to make to have that thriving marriage .

393
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Don’t hide from conflict because that’s not going to give you the marriage you want .

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Although in that conflict ,

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be kind ,

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just be loving ,

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be kind be clear and be present in the conversation and then you will be able to have a thriving marriage .

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Thank you for listening to the operation ,

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thriving marriage podcast with brian and jennifer harvey ,

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we have another opportunity for you to help your marriage thrive .

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We are hosting a special intensive marriage retreat at the beautiful Richard bush renewal center in michigan .

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This is an opportunity for us to spend time with you personally developing the skills that will help your marriage thrive .

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We’ll talk about enhancing communication skills ,

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conflict resolution and building intimacy in your marriage .

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As an added bonus podcast ,

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listeners will receive a 10% discount .

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All you have to do is mention the Operation thriving marriage podcast .

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When you register this retreat is limited to only nine couples .

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So make sure you register soon .

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For more information .

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Contact us at our website ,

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operation thriving marriage dot com .

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We look forward to meeting you in person .